Mambo Open Source Development Team - Letter to the community - Discussion

[Thorongil]

Let me quote an old friend:

I can't believe I'm hearin' this. Fine! I'll start my own CMS! With blackjack! An' hookers! In fact, ferget th'CMS an' the blackjack an' th' hookers, I'm just gonna go get some beer an' a couple porno mags.

[Jinx]

Good to see so many of u here ! It has been quite a ride so far, but worth every second of it.

[guilliam]

^^ theres a thread dedicated for the new name.. btw.

[yerg]

More power to the community I say. 

From a number of view points we need to disassociate the new name and graphics etc from Mambo/Miro.

Whilst we have all come from that point in time and whilst the Miro attitude is what it is let's do what the Core Team have done ... cut and run .. regroup ... move on.

Don't use any derivative or similiar names. This about what the essence of the project is about and like naming a child remember they are adults for a lot longer than they are children. So a radical in your face defiant name may sound appealing now but for how long.

What do we want to say to the workd .. what is the essence of this new project and where it will lead to? That's what the name must be about.

[ispsg]

For name suggestion, come here pls:http://forum.opensourcematters.org/index.php/topic,89.45.html

[christian]

Hello all,

great to see you all here. My English is not the best, therefore one hears few of me. I will follow the core dev, if necessarily I do not have a problem to rename my side mambonews.de to e.g. xxxxxxnews.de. I think Miro put a firecracker in mouth, hold it between front teeth, and light then the fuse. So crazy. I do not know a webmaster who will follow miro mambo, but I know enough webmaster those understood the open source thoughts and will follow you, too.

Greetings from Nuremberg, Christian

[troozers]

Just thought I would stick my oar into this thread and also welcome everyone to, what I think will be, a great ride.  I can't remember who first suggested it, but the ability to now put a face to a nick is something else - even if it does mean you got my ugly mug grinning back at you

Once again, welcome.

[norman]

whooohooooooo Congratulations. Now you will finally be free of your tethers.

[hotnuts21]

Well I knew it would not be long.

Its finally hit the news!
http://www.newsforge.com/newsvac/05/08/18/1413218.shtml

[sc00zy]

Well I knew it would not be long.

It took longer than I thought it would be.
In the Netherlands http://www.livre.nl was the first to bring this exciting news.

[BSD]

I've translated the letter into Serbian and uploaded text on http://www.mamboserbia.com which is the official translation and partner site for Mambo in Serbia.

[cozimek]

Come on Slashdot...where are you?  I just posted the NewsForge article to them, everyone else please keep trying!

-Ryan

[Predator]

Well I knew it would not be long.

It took longer than I thought it would be.
In the Netherlands http://www.livre.nl was the first to bring this exciting news.

Now also on heise.de:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/62935

[ptglidden]

Hello!

I just wanted to add my applause to the core dev team!  Thanks for taking a stand.  I think that this is a turn for the better.  Now the project can be truly community driven, without need for an overseer.

I am not much of a programmer, but perhaps after I get a few personal things straightened out, I can help the docs team.  I didn't jump in before, because I wasn't sure about Miro's control.  Now, I can support this project without reservations.

[Brett]

It is now up on NewsForge - http://www.newsforge.com/newsvac/05/08/18/1413218.shtml

[benwk]

Reading this thread, I was struck by the anti-establishment references: mutiny, rebellion, etc. Miro was never running the show, they were just along for the ride. Thus how can we rebel against them? We, the community members, are the lifeblood of this CMS. Without us and the leadership of the development team, the CMS would be nothing more than unused and unloved software code.

Commercial and community interests are not inherently at odds with each other. One way or another, open-source communities need profit-driven organizations. Respect and reciprocity from both are of key importance for the long-term growth and adoption of open-source software. I find it unfortunate that Miro didn't realize this when creating the foundation.

The foundation's goals are sound: to provide the structure and money to grow the Mambo project. Breaking up the development team and alienating the community through poor communication, abrupt actions, absurd fees, censorship, and the rapacious gathering of power is clearly not the right way to proceed.

How can we, the community, accomplish these goals in a democratic and efficient way? Organization is one issue, but what about the money? The core development team members all have their reasons for contributing time, but wouldn't it nice to provide them with some kind of financial benefit to defray development costs? And what about ancillary expenses? Who will pay and who will benefit?

What’s clear to me is that as an open source project, whoever pays, everyone must benefit. The foundation’s strategic partner program wasn’t created willy-nilly. It exists to promote an exchange of money for strategic influence. However, I can’t see a company with an extra $50k for fees paying out without a guarantee that the changes they want will be implemented. How can we encourage contributions from donors without selling out?

While Lamont's adventure will show businesses what not to do with open source, as long as we stick together and keep improving the CMS, we can set an example for other open-source communities.

I’m behind this community and the development team, as is the company that I work for.

Ben Kwiecinski

[Manuel70]

Absalom about the meeting with Peter Lamont:

http://forum.mamboserver.com/showpost.p ... tcount=248

[awc]

I can't say more than what has been said, but I know where my loyalties are.  Go Team!

AWC

[Tim Windsor]

I must admit I was worried for at least 30seconds, when I first saw the newsforge article. We all know that Mambo is a superb software solution, but that its real value is in the people who are behind it. The core developers have proven themselves responsible stewards in the past and we are right to trust them. Besides the core developers, the 3PD's are the driving force behind Mambo's suitability for such a wide variety of purposes. I have been advocating Mambo for about a year now to clients largely because of the strength of the community. I've read through most of the posts here and it seems that some Very key 3PD's and support site operators, have already signed on their support. I am satisfied that the future is safe, and that's what I will be telling my clients, and my boss

Ben has some excellent points. Namely, development and promotion costs money, and when the product is free, it's not simple to pay those costs. However, a distributed community has methods of recompense for effort spent, while $1000/yr to be a developer doesn't keep the free software free for very long.

[webgobe]

Keep goin'on, pals, we - the day-to-day users - are believing in you, and Mambo is like air for us!

[Jifor]

Wow.  I go on the road for a couple of days and this happens.  I hope that all goes well wih the dev team and that the current situation serves to catalyze the team and community.

If you need any help, I am an email away.

David

[TomT]

I had a conversation with someone from the Typo3 community. They also started a foundation last year. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is part of the community.
So, we might discuss such a thing in the future. For now let's put our efforts in making this forum as usefull as the old one was.
I agree with Ben that an anti-corporation sentiment isn't very usefull. Many off us are involved in Mambo as professionals. The main lessons for me are:1. An open source initiative shouldn't be dependant of a commercial enterprise and 2. The copyright must be owned by the community. Maybe we need a foundation for this purpose. In Holland one does.

[Manoxtra]

Open source should always be free, open and owned by a community, I stand by the dev-team... you made the right choice, its not easy, but it was just...

Thx! 

[guilliam]

I had a conversation with someone from the Typo3 community. They also started a foundation last year. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is part of the community.
So, we might discuss such a thing in the future. For now let's put our efforts in making this forum as usefull as the old one was.
I agree with Ben that an anti-corporation sentiment isn't very usefull. Many off us are involved in Mambo as professionals. The main lessons for me are:1. An open source initiative shouldn't be dependant of a commercial enterprise and 2. The copyright must be owned by the community. Maybe we need a foundation for this purpose. In Holland one does.

hello tom,

i dont know much what happen in the typo3 community and the foundation that was at their back. but i have a feeling that the success of typo3's foundation was due to its pure ultimate goals. unlikely with the goals(goals - surfaced as pure but we see a lot of fishy cookin at the back) what the incident mir* was trying(or tried) to implement.

guilliam

[Jafo]

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

It is a real shame.  Mambo is a great CMS.  I have written components and modules for it and am currently doing so now.  Where do we go from here?

I think it is time for a new thread.  This one is way too long.

[richards]

I dunno what to say. All I really care about is using a good cms that's free.

What is the plan now? Who's taking the reigns and making a fork?

[TomT]

The fact that Miro had bad intentions with the foundation doesn't mean that foundations as such are bad. For instance when you want to registar a domain you'll need a legal person. This can be a real person or an entity like a foundation. So if you want to be independant a foundation can be the best option.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of a foundation, I just want the best structure.

[stingrey]

What is the plan now? Who's taking the reigns and making a fork?

http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... tml#msg708

[hnoel]

Hello all.  I've been visiting the various Mambo related sites for the last 6 months as part of my evaluation of the various open source CMS's.  On one hand, it's a shame to see something like this happen.  On the other hand, I can see very clearly why the core team made this decision.  I hope that whatever the next CMS is called it will carry on and build onto the functionality and usefulness of the current release.  I will admit I haven't contributed anything to the project other than paying for some custom work related to Mambo.  I can say without hesistation that if this CMS is going to move forward and continue development I will continue to stand behind the core team.  I will also continue directing whatever funding I can towards custom components/modules for it. 

I am concerned that alot of useful information will be lost if the mamborserver.com forums go away.  I have personally solved a few issues by searching those forums.  If those could be scrapped and saved for future reference, that might come in handy.

[guilliam]

@TomT,

yes sir, were actually in the same track as i can see,.. on legalities and structure.

yes it is true that even though the captain of the ship is rotten, it doesnt ~automatically~ follow that: the ship it controls is rotten as well. BUT,.. sooner or later it will rot as well. dont you think?

I'm not saying I'm in favor of a foundation, I just want the best structure.

on my personal assessment; i can say that I AM IN FAVOR of a foundation together with the structure that will be made from this foundation. unfortunately, the intentions in which PL have showed in the "other" forum doesnt speaks of a promising and healthy future of the cummunity.

just my thoughts.

- guilliam