Suggestions: licencing, templates and other stuff

[absalom]

Re: licencing - need to specify models:
- GNU/GPL
- BSD
- Mozilla Open
- Creative Commons (all permutations)
- Free
- Linkware
- Commercial, with open distribution (Arthur Konze had some work under this)
- Commercial, paid
- Other

Templates need to be added to category lists, and you might need a section just for minor "customisations" (I've published a few hacks/tweaks to my area of the J! forge that might be relevant elsewhere)

[gsbe]

We will discuss adding more licenses to the list. We tried to include the most popular ones as opposed to just saying "Open Source" and "Commercial".

Site templates may be added to the site eventually but right now we want to focus on the existing Extension Types explained in the Manual. There were a number of reasons not to launch with site template listings:

• fear of this site becoming a "Template Showcase"
• change of naming conventions and usage in upcoming releases
• sheer amount of work involved with compiling a fair representation of available site templates upon launch

I think what you're discussing here is more FAQ / hacking information than a uploadable Extension. Can you give an example?

[absalom]

For backwards compatibility, I created a hack to have multiple flat list menus inside the J1.0.x buildbase, resolving one of the limitations of 1.0.x..

I identified the issue in the 1.0.x build and it only got fixed in the 1.1 trunk, so I'm hosting the fix on the J! forge for 1.0.x

[gsbe]

While I agree that this is good information for users to review, hacks and tutorials aren't installable Extension Types. We're trying to keep the directory within the confines of Joomla! itself...in other words if you can't install it with Joomla! it isn't listed. The one exception, of course, are site templates which we discussed above.

I've created a specific thread about hacks not being included in the directory here:
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,43648.0.html

[pcigre]

Please make some place where we can find "all" Joomola templates. We need it...

[manuman]

You could try Joomlaya for templates, they have most of the OS ones.

http://templates.joomlaya.com/

[pcigre]

There are dozens of template sites, and that is a problem... One central and oficial place would be great...

[olson]

http://www.joomlaos.de

then here

http://www.joomlaos.de/joomla_template_galerie.html

a very nice place to start

but i agree that a section with templates would be nice

[pcigre]

Can you only imagine how stong will this portal be if some user cna find anything he need for joomla on one pleace? There are hunderds of Free templates, and it would be so great to put tham all on one central pleace...

[Jinx]

There are four main reasons why we don't allow templates on the extension site :

1. It would quickly turn the extension site into a template showcase.

2. The extension site doesn't really have the necessary features to showcase templates.

3. We have a limited amount of available resources (moderation hours and site maintanence)

4. In the future the extenstion site will be closely coupled with the developer forge, we also don't accept any template projects on the forge.

This doesn't mean we aren't looking for solutions. It will just not happen in the short term, priority lies on getting 1.1 towards beta at the moment.

[eyezberg]

...priority lies on getting 1.1 towards beta at the moment.

Yes please!
Templates should be 100% well documented, with all requiered and optional parts, full explanation of 1.0 vs 1.1 differences, but there are just too many, and it's a bit of a different matter.. code is not the same as it's presentation. Of course, a "one place for all" approach would be nice, just one more tab up here in the menu, but then, when that one site is down, where do you turn to? Problem discussed a loong time ago already

[rjs]

I'm not sure "all" joomla templates in a single place will ever happen, but I'm certainly for changing the forum rules and allowing not only
3PD advertisement in terms of components etc.. to take place, but a an expansion towards allowing non for profit as well as income based commercial advertisers to bring the goods right here to the forums. Of course the forum hierarchy will need improved to allow for this, but I believe it starts right here in the forums. Give a person or a company the ability to advertise their products, support the product etc... under the scope of a central location as the forum.joomla.org, and I would place my bets that it's a winning combination.

While I can understand the reasoning behind not allowing templates on the extension site, surely their is a way to allow for a central place of advertisement for both non profit as well as the next money making Joomla entrepreneur.

[absalom]

4. In the future the extenstion site will be closely coupled with the developer forge, we also don't accept any template projects on the forge.

This is news to me.. When did the policy change?

[rjs]

4. In the future the extenstion site will be closely coupled with the developer forge, we also don't accept any template projects on the forge.

This is news to me.. When did the policy change?

That's what I wanted to ask last week when I found out that although it's advertised that there is one forum administrator, Brad mentioned that there are several in a private thread. Get used to it I would suppose, the rules seem to change daily without notice. Not that I have any knowledge of your personal question.

[masterchief]

That's what I wanted to ask last week when I found out that although it's advertised that there is one forum administrator, Brad mentioned that there are several in a private thread. Get used to it I would suppose, the rules seem to change daily without notice.

Rick, of course there are several people with admin rights to the forum.  I've got them because I'm the boss - and I've also got the launch codes for the banana bombs. But there are other people also, ideally at third points around the world (but it doesn't always work that way) to support the official Super Admins, Brad and Tonie, in the case of emergency.  If there was only one and he/she got hit by a bus we'd be in deep do-do would we not?  Really, this is a non-issue.

As for other advertising portals, we are considering them, but they will still be separate from the extensions site if they eventuate.  You have to appreciate we've got a lot going on and we need to balance getting Beta 1 out with providing and resourcing additional services - and right now it's time to return complete focus to our next version.

[brad]

Just a FYI to dispell the 'conspiracy' theories:

The FORUM rules are here: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,65.0.html
The last rules change, well lets say clarification was here: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,41740.0.html

This is the last entry on the rules page that everyone agrees to when they register on the forums:

Failure to abide by these rules may result in an editing, negative moderation or deletion of your post. We reserve the right to ban abusers from the site. We reserve the right to change these rules at any time.

Last of all, this thread is discussing the extension site rules

[masterchief]

4. In the future the extenstion site will be closely coupled with the developer forge, we also don't accept any template projects on the forge.

This is news to me.. When did the policy change?

The forge rule on templates has been reworded a bit (see http://dev.joomla.org/content/view/1092/73/) to be a bit more inclusive of valid projects.  What we are trying to stop is people using the forge as a development sandbox for client work.  Admittedly the previous wording prevented that but also potentially killed off a few valid projects.  I hope the situation is clearer now regarding the forge projects.

Templates will still stay off the extensions site.  You can appreciate that the site would be choked by the shear number of different templates.  As already pointed out, they need a different type of site.  And I'll restate that we do have plans for a second type of directory that covers community and business needs, but that is in the queue and there are more pressing things to get out the now at this time.

Thanks for your understanding.

[eyezberg]

OT, sorry, but:
I would suggest adding the rewording of the "What is Joomla" page ( http://www.joomla.org/content/view/12/26/ ) ,some less-mambo-focused FAQ on the main site, and the Help site entry page rewriting to those "pressing things" priorities, as 1st impressions do count a lot and you might not get a second chance.. I do know this has been aknowledged by Brad in another thread already, I also had brought this up about the Help site ( http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,33723.0.html ) almost 2 months ago, but I am under the impression there's too much "red tape" (is how it's called in english, right? - aka administrative delays) before anything gets done? You do have some very skilled native english speakers writing official statements, couldn't someone take care of those important entry pages?
feel free to split from this thread..

[brad]

Joe,
It's not red tape, it's called time..

We'll get to it.. 

[eyezberg]

lol, I know about time.. if I could add a few hours to my days, I'd be on the doc team I guess.. as it stands, I'm stealing time off work to be able to stick around..

[brad]

Work.. is that the kind of thing that pays money? I must find out more about that....

[gsbe]

Work.. is that the kind of thing that pays money? I must find out more about that....

Totally over-rated, I hear.

[ArtFusion]

There is this misconception that Commercial does not mean Open Source. Open Source does not mean free, it means not Closed Source. Commercial means it is a paid for license, not that it is Closed Source.

I think there really needs to be a designation that an extension is Closed Source, as in Recipes Pro. as I would not have purchased it had I realised sooner that it was encrypted and Closed Source.

I don't mind at all paying for a good component, as I believe developers should be rewarded for their hard work and fine products. So commercial is fine by me, and if it is highlighted in on official Joomla directory, it should be Open Source, as there is a tacit assumpton that the software on the directory is Open Source. In fact I don't think there is a place at all for closed source extensions on a Joomla directory. maybe elsewhere, but not on Joomla's directory.

[brad]

OT: Joe, see: http://www.joomla.org/content/view/12/26/

Tim Broeker stepped in to help with the re-write.

[eyezberg]

Nice. Long time I hadn't seen Tim around, cool he's still here.

[compass]

I read with some interest the thinking about not having templates on the extension site. I do feel however that the comments missed teh point.

1. The extensions site is designed to be a one stop source
2. The extensions site is supposed to build community/peer review

It would seem to me that template providers should be able to submit. Realizing the comments made about volumn of templates, it would be quite easy to have the submissions be one per provider rather than one per template. Simple really.

I also don't buy the comment that there are many other sites that list templates. The same was/is true for extensions.

[brian]

Have to agree with your arguments here and I wouldnt even have your limit of one template per designer. As for there not being enough time to create/manage this stuff people have offered to do it but it has fallen on deaf ears ;(

[AmyStephen]

We are missing information about commercial templates and I can think of no valid (fair) reason we would not include listing these.

++++

We list all extensions - open/closed commercial/free (as it should be);

We list our web service providers (commercial; as it should be);

And, in our FAQ, we list:

1. Free templates
2. Instructions on how to build templates

IMO, we should also include a listing of commercial templates.  I do believe it is not fair to exclude commercial template providers (and, I mean fair to the community and the providers.)

Now, I do *not* think we want to invest developer time in creating a template section of the website where each template can be viewed. I think we should simply add a listing of commercial template providers to the FAQ.

Hopefully, that would be both an easy solution to implement (contact the FAQ team) and satisfactory to the commercial template providers. At least until v. 1.5 is out, we could move with this type of solution without bothering our developers.

++++

BTW: I do not understand why we keep the topic "Joomla Webhosting" as a sticky in the "General Questions" area, and we store the template information in the FAQ. Maybe they should all be in the FAQ? I have just wondered about that and it is frankly always hard for me to find the webhosting topic -- if it were a sticky in the FAQ, it would be easier for *me* to find!



++++

Thanks for letting me share my perspective -- for what it's worth! Amy

[compass]

For my part I would prefer the extensions directory than the faq.

The extensions directory is becoming "the" place to go for people to find extra "stuff" for Joomla. The peer review of templates is very useful for Joomla'ers I feel.

[AmyStephen]

Barrie -

I don't necessarily disagree with that - although I think templates are really a different animal. But, right now, the concern is v 1.5, of course. What if there was a link in the Extensions for Templates and that link took you to an FAQ item that listed Free and Commercial template providers with links to their sites? Would that be good enough until v 1.5 was released? Later, I agree with you that this should be revisited -- it is only a matter of resources and timing.

Amy