OpenSEF not available at http://extensions.joomla.org/ ?

Post by **pe7er** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:32 pm

Why is OpenSEF missing at the Extensions site under Search Engine Friendly URLs?
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

OpenSEF 2.0.0-RC5_SP2 is not listed at the list of Official List of Vulnerable 3rd Party Add-ons:
index.php/topic,79477.0.html

mpettitt · Post by **mpettitt** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:07 pm

Because the OpenSEF developers fell out with the extensions site, IIRC. No obligation to be listed on the extensions site if you don't want to be...

Post by **infograf768** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:53 pm

pe7er wrote:OpenSEF 2.0.0-RC5_SP2 is not listed at the list of Official List of Vulnerable 3rd Party Add-ons:
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,79477.0.html

It is (second post).
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg415921

Post by **pe7er** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:22 pm

mpettitt wrote:Because the OpenSEF developers fell out with the extensions site, IIRC. No obligation to be listed on the extensions site if you don't want to be...

What do you mean with "fell out"? Did they not keep their listing at the extensions site up to date?
I understand it isn't an obligation to be listed, but it will promote the product better.
And for me a listing at the extension site is handy as reference.

Cheers Infograf768, I have seen the second post which only mentiones "Version: <= 2.0.0 RC5 Unpatched", and I meant OpenSEF 2.0.0-RC5_SP2.

kenmcd · Post by **kenmcd** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:54 am

Got tired of dealing with phony "reviews".
After no response from Ext site admins re: brain-dead TRASH reviews by clueless,
I deleted OpenSEF from the Joomla Extensions site.
Currently there are more negatives than positives
to listing OpenSEF on the Extensions web site.

After unacceptable responses Marko/Predator also deleted JP-WP and JP-Wiki.

When I created the CMM lists for Mambo and Joomla,
I recognized the inherent limitations of "user" reviews.
And did not publish user reviews for this reason.
Some users are not good evaluators of complex components.
Joomla Ext site Admins do not seem to understand this basic issue.

Post by **pe7er** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:31 pm

kenmcd wrote:Got tired of dealing with phony "reviews".
After no response from Ext site admins re: brain-dead TRASH reviews by clueless morons,
I deleted OpenSEF from the Joomla Extensions site.
Currently there are more negatives than positives
to listing OpenSEF on the Extensions web site.

That's bad to hear... I really like OpenSEF!
And the extensions site is always very usefull as reference for 3rd party extensions.
Therefore I was wondering why OpenSEF was missing...

It's a pity that the review system at http://extensions.joomla.org/ is not linked to the user profiles at http://forum.joomla.org/
If it was, it would have given an indication about the users background (it's profile and postings at the forum), and would give an overall indication about the expertise of the user and of its comment.

zman818 · Post by **zman818** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:39 pm

until the clueless Ext Site admins figure out a way to publish complex components

I can understand (and relate) to the frustration felt when ignorant people who can't be bothered to take time or read documentation make comments that are irrelevant or incorrect. OpenSEF is an incredibly rich product that provides a wealth of SEF and SEO functionality. With that comes complexity, and some people expect everything to be a push of the button, which is unrealistic.

I just wonder if it's necessary to overtly insult the staff at Ext. Seems counterproductive, IMHO.

brian · Post by **brian** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:44 pm

whilst I understand your frustration and appreciate you're hard work and commitment there is no need for some of the language and name calling you have used. the fact is that sef solutions are not easy and they are not for everyone. they require a far greater knowledge to implement successfully than joomla so you will always have user problems.

eyezberg · Post by **eyezberg** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:55 pm

pe7er wrote:It's a pity that the review system at http://extensions.joomla.org/ is not linked to the user profiles at http://forum.joomla.org/
If it was, it would have given an indication about the users background (it's profile and postings at the forum), and would give an overall indication about the expertise of the user and of its comment.

This is something I also asked about here: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,80095.0.html but haven't heard back on since gsbe reply..

Ken, it would be so much more readable and to the point and usefull if you cut out all the excess and redundant (does that word exist in english) insulting, name calling and swearing.. what good does it do (except make me smile -again- and wonder how this is allowed to be posted on these forums..)? None, only makes your rants way to long for anyone to feel like reading. I understand why and what you are saying, but it needn't be in such words. Waste of time.

kenmcd · Post by **kenmcd** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:56 am

Done.

brad · Post by **brad** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:06 am

Where is the discussion thread with the JED editors? I'd like to review it.

Peter Koch · Post by **Peter Koch** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:47 am

brad wrote:Where is the discussion thread with the JED editors? I'd like to review it.

I too could not find anything in the JED board, did you discuss the issue with the JED maintainers by PM possibly?

I am also not too happy that reviews of people who never really worked with my component get published, or technical problems of people who obviously never have read any faq/documentation or let alone seek help in the support forum. However if such "reviews" get reported to the JED maintainers, they normally get removed or edited (might take some time though when they contact the author).

(BTW, this thread should be in the JED board IMHO.)

brad · Post by **brad** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:51 am

Moved. Good suggestion.

I will tell you that the JED editors are doing a huge job, and yet they are still open to suggestions on how to improve things. When these suggestions are delivered in a non-emotional way, that allows for constructive progress to be made.

Vimes · Post by **Vimes** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:41 pm

Ken,

If it's said without the angry young (old?) man approach, there's a good chance that I'll listen to you, andi if it's worth listening to, i'll fight your corner. If I read a post that's all bitterness and no substance, I'll ignore it, I don't care who's name it's posted under.

If you've got a grumble about a review, and if I can prove that review false, I'll unpublish it. That's a fact. If you work with me, I'll work with you.

Vimes

kenmcd · Post by **kenmcd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:09 am

My MAJOR issue with the Extensions site admins is that I got NO RESPONSE to a request for moderation of phoney/braindead/loser "Reviews" of OpenSEF.

OpenSEF is a complicated component.
OpenSEF requires a complicated installation.
Some of the "reviews" were complete clueless BS.
I got NO RESPONSE from Joomla Extensions site to my inquires regarding braindead comments.

Subject SEF Advance to the same clueless BS.
SEF Advance has no open forum.
SEF Advance has no advanced features which require a BRAIN.
SEF Advance has no open BUG Tracker.

BUT, the SEF Advance developer IS a member of the Joomla Core Team.
No conflict there!!!!

This where the Joomla Core Team assumes all Joomla users are clueless, brain-dead, idiots.
DUH!
That's me.

Post by **ot2sen** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:53 am

Hi kenmcd,

Well its been a long time since this was dealth with but Im pretty sure that you did get some response

Actually, the considerations and worries about reviews that was presented by the opensef team, resulted in the creation of a better and more strict set of rules for reviews. Thanks

The guidelines and rules for submitting reviews have been further changed since then, to be sure that reviews are made by users that actually successfully installed and used the extension they wish to review.

More improvements is being made now, and will soon be seen in the Joomla! Extensions Directory (JED).

We are very aware of reviews that are not actual reviews, and try to sort out the ones that obviously (for the experienced user) is made by a user that need some basic understanding of the extension.

OpenSEF was listed in the early days of JED, and we can only admit that some "reviews" was not that good in the beginning. Therefore the guidelines and rules was created.

You are welcomed to resubmit this great sef extension again, and I sure hope you would consider that.

kenmcd · Post by **kenmcd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:47 am

ot2sen wrote:Hi kenmcd,

Well its been a long time since this was dealth with but Im pretty sure that you did get some response

I sent an inquiry regarding questionable "reviews" via the "Report this Listing."
I got NO response.
Nada.
Nil.
Nothing.
Nothing made me more angry then NO RESPONSE.
My email was empty.
My email was available.
There absolutely was NO Response to my inquires.
My email was empty.
There is no other explanation than BIAS.
Bias towards the Core Team SEF Developer Saka.

This told me there was NO RESPONSE to my email inquiries.
From this I formulated my opinions regarding the Joomla Extensions site inquiries regarding "reviews."

Please correct me if I am wrong, and provide links to the explanations and/or the "review moderation" links that I have missed.
It did not happen.

If you have made substantial changes to the Joomla Extensions site which helps to eliminate bias towards Joomla Core Team Commercial Components, please tell me how the Joomla Ext site has changed to no longer blindly support the Joomla Core Developer Commercial Components.

brad · Post by **brad** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:53 am

At least you are now getting a reply on these forums

I'd love to see IMHO the best SEF component for Joomla (Commercial and GPL etc) back on the JED ASAP though.

kenmcd · Post by **kenmcd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:55 am

brad wrote:At least you are now getting a reply on these forums

I'd love to see IMHO the best SEF component for Joomla (Commercial and GPL etc) back on the JED ASAP though.

I would be happy to return OpenSEF to the Joomla Extensions site when I can be assured of open and fair comments moderation.
The biased CRAP that was allowed to be posted and delivered was beyond normal acceptance.
SEF Advance has OBVIOUS proponents.
I got no response regarding BIASED brain-dead "reviews."

Be happy to to post OpenSEF on the Joomla Extensions site when we no longer have to put-up with biased crap from users who have no idea on how to implement advanced SEF with Joomla. Easy to hide when you have no support forum to

Based on the available features this is not rational.
OpenSEF for Joomla has more features than SEF Advance.
OpenSEF RC6 will kill SEF Advance on MySQL queries.
SEF Advance will have 40-60 queries per page.
OpenSEF RC6 will have 1 query which will pull all URLs.
The OpenSEF RC6 query cache is a killer feature.
How is this described in the J Ext site is silly.

OpenSEF is still under construction and subject to development
We do not have 2 years of Joomla Core Team development experience.
Gee, do you think that may help?

Once we figure-out all the Joomla Core SEF issues, with no Joomla Core Team help due to the inherent bias.
Honestly, SEF Advance has 2 years of code experience on us.
No surprise there.
We are playing catchup with no public help from the Joomla Core Team.
Give us the next 2 years like SEF Advance and we will catch-up.
And bury SEF Advance.

Love the Ext site comments for SEF Advance.
"The fact a core developer is behind this plugin means it should continue to work this well with future versions."
Wow.
Cannot understand why a user could possibly attribute greater attributes to SEF Advance.

Gee, OpenSEF is also developed by a Joomla Core Developer (Marko/Predator).
Had a FEW "developments" on that fact.
Lets compare Marko/Predator's code/consulting accomplishments to Saka.
No contest.
Is Joomla better for Marko/Predator's contributions?
Yes, without a doubt.

Does Saka contribute some major thing to Joomla now?
NO.
Look at the contributions from Predator and Rey compared to Saka (in SVN).
No contest.
Two contributions per six-months (non-SEF code) is not a big deal.
Ridiculous.
There are some many contributions stifled by the Saka connection.

Question: Is Saka a benefit or a liability to the Joomla Core?
Saka is a liability when compared to the potential.

But, again, this is just the opinion of another clueless user.

Post by **ot2sen** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:59 am

Hi kenmcd,

Just tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full. Could you make room for a single pm?

kenmcd · Post by **kenmcd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:09 am

ot2sen wrote:Hi kenmcd,

Just tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full. Could you make room for a single pm?

My forum PM InBox was over-filled when I was removed from the Doc Team without any notice or discussion.
Perhaps you could ask the powers-that-be why they reduced my PM capacity from 100 to 20 without a word to me.

Note: I have available PM capacity at the OpenSEF forum.
http://forum.j-prosolution.com/members/kenmcd.html

You can contact me there without restriction.

.

brad · Post by **brad** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:31 am

Come on Ken, work with us man.. we're here trying to help.

Why does this have anything to do with Saka, let your component stand on it's own merits, and leave the others out! Your component should not be compared to SEF Advance, but you are the only one who constantly compares.

About the PM capacity, I did PM you to explain why you were being removed from the documentation team, but that was 6 maybe 9 months ago... please don't try to twist the facts....let's try to move forward, not backwards. I have a very good memory, and still have logs from IM conversations... again, no idea how bringing this up helps the current situation....

There is a link that says 'Prune messages' in your PM box, click it and prune.. it is the least you can do for the editors who are trying to help here...

Love the Ext site comments for SEF Advance.
"The fact a core developer is behind this plugin means it should continue to work this well with future versions."
Wow.
Cannot understand why a user could possibly attribute greater attributes to SEF Advance.

Big deal! The user may not even have had opportunity to compare the two, but again, you want to compare, not us or the users... I'm at a loss to see how constantly flogging the dead horse (Saka does nothing for Joomla) can in any way be helping your cause.. whatever that may be.

The editors are reaching out to you, despite your criticism and circular complaints... please try to work WITH them and not against. Clear you PM box and let them contact you.

Post by **romit** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:55 pm

@ Ken, I still don't see Open-SEF on JED so I guess talks have broken down with you agian...

I am posting a short extract of an users chat on the joomla IRC..

Question: I want a page on my site to have a specific name, i.e. "http://mysite.org/namedpage". Is there a way to do this in Joomla, or am I stuck with these long, constructed URLs?
n1tw1t: OpenSef
Is that an add-on, Crazy?
n1tw1t: yes, but it's not called OpenSEF any more, AFAIK.
oh its not
wow I've been out of the loop for 2 weeks and look what happens
Sorry - how do I access this? Is it a feature I can turn on in the administrative interface?
component
n1tw1t, you have to download and install it
Ah, word. Gotcha - thanks a lot!
I think it's now called Artio JoomSEF: http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/
http://www.j-prosolution.com/
CraZy675: but you might be talking about a different component.
No, it is still called OpenSEF
http://projects.j-prosolution.com/en/pr ... ensef.html
hmm... cool.

I am just shocked to see this right now.. my god.. If this is the case i.e. the general public think that open-sef has moved on to become artio, its really really bad..

Seems like the re brand from open-sef.org to j-prosolution.com and the release of artio joomsef coincided and many people might think of that..
So not for you , not for joomla, please put the differences aside and do it for the general masses who cant see how good Open-SEF actually is..
and I assure you you would get a positive review/rating from me atleast and a load of others for this marvelous joomla extension..

Cheers

Trizock · Post by **Trizock** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:02 am

I don't care for all the crap that is in this thread.. I would just like to say.

I dont have much skill as a coder at all and hence i need components like this, that are free.

I just tried to download and install OpenSEF... and ive had problems.. (Its not working yet)...

but looking through it, it has great potential if i could get it to work...

Ken, if you created this, well done, i look forward to future versions, and future updates that make it easier to install...

(I'm having problems with the server config at the moment - 90% sure).. anyway... Good Work on OpenSEF

Predator · Post by **Predator** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:00 pm

Trizock wrote:I don't care for all the crap that is in this thread.. I would just like to say.

I dont have much skill as a coder at all and hence i need components like this, that are free.

I just tried to download and install OpenSEF... and ive had problems.. (Its not working yet)...

but looking through it, it has great potential if i could get it to work...

Ken, if you created this, well done, i look forward to future versions, and future updates that make it easier to install...

(I'm having problems with the server config at the moment - 90% sure).. anyway... Good Work on OpenSEF

If you need help there is a Forum on my Site:

http://forum.j-prosolution.com/opensef/

Feel free to ask.

@all

OpenSEF will return to the JED with the next release which is currently in the Testphase, hope this clearify some things.

Post by **romit** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:03 pm

Predator wrote:@all

OpenSEF will return to the JED with the next release which is currently in the Testphase, hope this clearify some things.

Great thanks Marko, heard of all the new features on it.. Really looking forward to it...
Cheers

Unlimited Dynamics · Post by **Unlimited Dynamics** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:27 am

At the very least, if we are going to drag this discussion on, we may as well integrate a few more soap opera scenes to make the drama a bit more worth our while. :pop

I too noticed Open-SEF was MIA and figured the reasons reverted back to the same old bull that's been going on with the comonent since the early days. As far as I am concerned, Open-SEF is the best SEF option for Joomla and ought to be integrated into Joomla immediately and its required SEF extensions integrated into all worthy Joomla components. I haven't found it difficult to configure and use, but various server configurations have made it difficult for some to get it going, but remember, often times it has nothing to do with Open-SEF but instead everything to do with SEF in general, since on such server configurations Joomla SEF will not work, either.

I am very pleased to see the promise of Open-SEF to be delivered to the Joomla Extensions site. Along with that, I would highly recommend that all the SEF extensions and optional .htaccess files be included with them to assist others in deploying them quickly and without excessive issues.

And regarding the naysayers and nitwits who continually post trash about the component, screw them. Open-SEF does indeed stand upon its own merit and ought not be further denegraded by shifting its direction simply because some sewage bags sling sludge at it in reviews.

Predator wrote:If you need help there is a Forum on my Site:
http://forum.j-prosolution.com/opensef/
Feel free to ask.
@all
OpenSEF will return to the JED with the next release which is currently in the Testphase, hope this clearify some things.

fabs · Post by **fabs** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:59 pm

I was really amazed after reading this thread.

@kenmcd:
what made u so bitter man? reviews? come on! look at it from a distance. it is ridiculous to take those reviews all serious. if there are enough reviews, which of course requires the extensions to be listed (!!!) there will be an equilibrium. First the disappointed shout.. then u will get the positive feedback from people who know about it! And most users can distinguish between good and bad reviews!

YOU ARE NOT DOING OPENSEF A FAVOUR if you don't list it. That is my true opinion! Stop whining and stand up for your component. You know it is good and if you continue developing it people will recognize that!!! Right now your action can be considered a draw back. Don't do it. Would be a pitty!

truth is that artio has evolved a little faster in the past month and quite a few people will switch now with community builder integration and. I was conastantly waiting for opensef rc6. will also try artios sef comp now. But i am really excited about opensef! looking forward!

Keep up the great work!
Fabs

Predator · Post by **Predator** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:14 pm

As i wrote before to clearfied things it will be back with the next release.

If artio has time enough ok no prob i must work for my food and can work on OpenSEF only in my sparetime, if people want to switch no prob, this are OpenSource addons so people can do what they want

I will keep working without letting me put under presure, so as i stated before with the release of the delay rc6 OpenSEF will return on the JED, currently it doesn't make sense.

fabs wrote:I was really amazed after reading this thread.

@kenmcd:
what made u so bitter man? reviews? come on! look at it from a distance. it is ridiculous to take those reviews all serious. if there are enough reviews, which of course requires the extensions to be listed (!!!) there will be an equilibrium. First the disappointed shout.. then u will get the positive feedback from people who know about it! And most users can distinguish between good and bad reviews!

YOU ARE NOT DOING OPENSEF A FAVOUR if you don't list it. That is my true opinion! Stop whining and stand up for your component. You know it is good and if you continue developing it people will recognize that!!! Right now your action can be considered a draw back. Don't do it. Would be a pitty!

truth is that artio has evolved a little faster in the past month and quite a few people will switch now with community builder integration and. I was conastantly waiting for opensef rc6. will also try artios sef comp now. But i am really excited about opensef! looking forward!

Keep up the great work!
Fabs

fabs · Post by **fabs** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:30 pm

looking forward marko!
i tried artio joomsef and have some problems. opensef worked perfectly annd i liek it better in the backend. Keep rocking!

The Joomla! Forum™

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