Download links are dead

[Garamond]

It seems like some of the download links in the extensions directory are dead, and it has been so at least since yesterday. What's happening?

[ot2sen]

Hi Garamond,

This is most likely because of old forge.joomla.org now finally been moved to joomlacode.org
Developers that still haven´t updated their listing info are strongly encouraged to do this asap.

But not all download links are affected by this.
Will estimate that less than 20% use some sort of link to old forge, and we will do our best to help/motivate/contact the developers that need to update their listings. 

[Garamond]

OK, thanks for the info. I was trying to download the LMO extension - does anyone know where to obtain that besides from these pages?

[brad]

Have you checked: http://www.joomlacode.org ?

[facedancer]

OK, thanks for the info. I was trying to download the LMO extension - does anyone know where to obtain that besides from these pages?

Please be patient, all files are on Joomlacode and will be available ASAP. Checked extension you've mentioned, it's all there, just waiting for its admin to publish files

[brad]

All old links should be going to http://www.joomla.org/forgeoffline.html now.

[vizion2000]

Hi

I have been trying to get the Gallery2 Bridge for a couple of days now...

What is happening??

david

[Garamond]

Have you checked: http://www.joomlacode.org ?

Yes, but I had no access privileges to the LMO-page on that site.

[vizion2000]

Hi

I have been trying to get the Gallery2 Bridge for a couple of days now...

What is happening??

david

There is no link for Galler2 Bridge on Joomla code.

FWIW I think this transfer to a different source site has been handled very badly. It would have been well handled if BOTH download system had been working at the same time and then the old one cut when the new had been proven.

IMHO The way this has been handled is an example of hasty implementation of new ideas without careful planning and  logistics . Joomla usually does things well this is upsetting.

david

[vizion2000]

OK, thanks for the info. I was trying to download the LMO extension - does anyone know where to obtain that besides from these pages?

Please be patient, all files are on Joomlacode and will be available ASAP. Checked extension you've mentioned, it's all there, just waiting for its admin to publish files :)

Please be patient -- >:(
this is a screw up od confidence destroying dimensions. BEFORE the old site was cut someone should have checked that ALL administrative changes had been made and that the new site would work. :'(

Come on guys -- at least apologise AND either restore the old site until this new notion works OR offer to do all the admin changes yourselves. :pop

I confess to being more than a bit annoyed as the screw up is causing a lot of delays and frustration for the joomla community.

david

[brad]

Settle down people.. this has been planned for months, and all developers of projects were emailed. Joomlacode has also been working for months.

There are no mistakes here, this was all planned.

[brad]

For more info see: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,150158.0.html

[vizion2000]

Settle down people.. this has been planned for months, and all developers of projects were emailed. Joomlacode has also been working for months.

There are no mistakes here, this was all planned.

This kind of defensive reply is really unwelcome.. and fuels anger. You are not recognising the reality.

I think someone responsible needs to understand that this kind of response can be seen as pouring gasoline onto a smoking fire

IMHO Noone is disputing that it was planned BUT asking someone to recognise hat the planning was clearly not good enough

Noone is suggesting  someone planed to replace a system that worked with one that clearly does not.

Clearly the planning did not incorporate a stage that CHECKED the new system was working BEFORE the old one was cut off.

So we clearly have BAD planning

David

[vizion2000]

[/quote]
This kind of defensive reply is really unwelcome.. and fuels anger. You are not recognising the reality.

I think someone responsible needs to understand that this kind of response can be seen as pouring gasoline onto a smoking fire >:(

IMHO Noone is disputing that it was planned BUT asking someone to recognise hat the planning was clearly not good enough

Noone is suggesting  someone planed to replace a system that worked with one that clearly does not. :'(

Clearly the planning did not incorporate a stage that CHECKED the new system was working BEFORE the old one was cut off.

So we clearly have BAD planning

David
[/quote]
Incidentally..
CHECKING "the new system was working" needed to include CHECKING that all extensions on the old system are accessible on the new.. if not both systems should have been planned to continue opertaing until all necessary administrative steps had been completed.  :'(

This kind of planning is basic thinking and training for any half competent systems administrator. So please no more defensiveness -- people will be with you when mistakes are honestly recognised, and competent steps taken to resolve the problem. 

BUT please no more blaming third party administrators.. ultimately IMHO joomla needs to recgnise the responsibility lies in house.
david

[brad]

*sigh* The new system has been working for months. Any developer was welcome to migrate their project themselves at any time, many chose to do that. Many projects have inactive developers and may well be abandoned. Please don't blame us, the people who supply you with all these resources for free.

Have a great day. I wish you the best.

PS, please pick a new username on these forums, the one you have now is against the rules.

[vizion2000]

*sigh* The new system has been working for months. Any developer was welcome to migrate their project themselves at any time, many chose to do that. Many projects have inactive developers and may well be abandoned. Please don't blame us, the people who supply you with all these resources for free.

Have a great day. I wish you the best.

PS, please pick a new username on these forums, the one you have now is against the rules.

The issue is not whether or not it has been working for months BUT the fact it is not working now!!!

I do not think you are listening 

NOONE wants to blame anyone -- the fact is it is not working now!

IMHO it would be better to cknowledge it has gne wrong and tell us how we can access the missing extensions.

So please come back with a constructive  response rather than all this over-defensive reaction.

Please recognises we all value you guys and we want to continue to feel good about what you do-- everyone is human and everyone fouls up sometime - and everyone deserves to be treated with respect when responsibility is accepted.

ATM it feels more like the ostriches have stuck their heads in the sand   and I do notfeel it helps anyone for that impression to remain around this issue.

Regarding the off topic request I would be very  willing to change login name -- as it is off topic maybe you could send me a private message to let me know how to change it.

Thanks
david

[LorenzoG]

Hi David,

Sorry to hear the troubles you have had to download the Gallery2 bridge. However, I can assure you that the Sites & Infrastructures team has worked extremely hard to get the new joomlacode to work smothly. As Brad mentioned, it also need some cooperation from the developers and we are working actively to only list active projects in the Extensions Directory.

In the meanwhile, you can download the gallery2bridge component from a mirror site
http://www.joomlaos.de/Downloads/Joomla ... ridge.html

Hope it helps!

[Garamond]

I somewhat agree with David here. It's very frustrating when I try to set up a new sports webpage with LMO, and cannot seem to find any working link to the file. The developers haven't abandoned the project, so i don't know why we can't download the installer. I can always surf over to their main homepage, but they don't serve the Joomla-version of LMO there.

[vizion2000]

Hi David,

Sorry to hear the troubles you have had to download the Gallery2 bridge. However, I can assure you that the Sites & Infrastructures team has worked extremely hard to get the new joomlacode to work smothly. As Brad mentioned, it also need some cooperation from the developers and we are working actively to only list active projects in the Extensions Directory.

In the meanwhile, you can download the gallery2bridge component from a mirror site
http://www.joomlaos.de/Downloads/Joomla ... ridge.html

Hope it helps!

Great reply LorenzoG
Thank you so much.
Your  example makes me feel someone cares and is  listening.

The problem is that I am in the middle of building a large site and need access to quite a number of extensions. This foul up has come at a bad time for me and is really delaying my efforts. I am sure it is the same for others.  :(

My question is - is it possible to restore the old access until everything has been moved onto the new system.  ???

The effect on users of a failure at this point obviously got disregarded in either the planning or implementation stage.

My question is what can be done to clean up the problem without delay?

Thanks again for getting back so constructively

david

[brad]

The old forge is down, VA have turned it off when the contract expired.

We do have, however a full backup, and more than 3 people have been working full days for the last week to migrate the 1000's of projects. Be patient, it's a huge task.

If developers of projects can't handle the 2 months notice they were given, there is not much we can do. We will try to restore all the projects on joomlacode.org, however it is still up to the developers to claim them before they get back to how they were.

You do realize, we migrated to an entirely new system here. We can't help it if developers are not able to update their projects we host for free for them.

[vizion2000]

The old forge is down, VA have turned it off when the contract expired.

We do have, however a full backup, and more than 3 people have been working full days for the last week to migrate the 1000's of projects. Be patient, it's a huge task.

If developers of projects can't handle the 2 months notice they were given, there is not much we can do. We will try to restore all the projects on joomlacode.org, however it is still up to the developers to claim them before they get back to how they were.

You do realize, we migrated to an entirely new system here. We can't help it if developers are not able to update their projects we host for free for them.

I have every sympathy when stuff goes pear shaped.. it looks as though there was too big a gap between the planning and the implementation stages. 

An experienced systems administrator would think in terms of having completed the transfers at least a month before the cut off date, to allow for testing, and have made provision for extending the contract period in the eventuality of stuff not working.

IMHO Joomla is the core - but its value the value of it lies in the third party extensions, modules & templates.  This system  failure is critical rather then an administrative hiccup.

Without extensions Joomla is dead in the water. 

IMHO Your responses do not recognise the seriousness of the failure or its implications for the community. IMHO Joomla's future is more dependent upon the developers than the other way round. It seems to me that the Joomla team relegated this operation to too low a priority. 

IMHO The way it was done fails the community's primary needs.

Some way is needed to get this stuff accessible without delay.

My two peeenyworth
david

[LorenzoG]

IMHO Joomla is the core - but its value the value of it lies in the third party extensions, modules & templates.  This system  failure is critical rather then an administrative hiccup.

Personally, I think the value of Joomla! is in every part of our community inclucing the members, core-developers, work group members and the 3rd part developers. If we mismanage one part, then it affect the whole community. So IMO, every part are very important for us

I want to agree with you and we are very conscious about that the 3rd party developers are extremely important for us all (as the rest of the community). If we wouldn't have them, Joomla! wouldn't be what it is today. This is one of the reason we manage the Extensions Directory and the Joomla! Code (there 3rd party developers can host their open source extensions for free) very actively.

For the Extensions Directory, we only list active projects with a responsible developer (group of developers). One of the reasons are that we want the extensions maintained if security vulnerabilities are found. If we get any indications of issues about an extension or if the dev site become unavailable, we contact the developer. If we found that an extension has become abandoned, then we unpublish the extension until someone take it under their wings. We continuous discuss within the working group how to improve our services and how to handle different issues when they arise. We also active discuss with the 3rd party developers and the community, like we are doing now.

What I want to point, is that we active work with the Extensions and they matter to us.

[vizion2000]

IMHO Joomla is the core - but its value the value of it lies in the third party extensions, modules & templates.  This system  failure is critical rather then an administrative hiccup.

Personally, I think the value of Joomla! is in every part of our community inclucing the members, core-developers, work group members and the 3rd part developers. If we mismanage one part, then it affect the whole community. So IMO, every part are very important for us

The problem, I am sorry to say, is that this has been mismanaged and noone has so far had the integrity to acknowledge that that is so OR to regret the error. Many of the responses so far have been to tell us to be patient, this has been planned for - or other excessively defensive responses. Noone has acknowledged how serious this problem is or how it disturbs the core of a developers relationship with joomla. Noone has yet told us how soon it is going to be fixed. Whenbasic viable extensions are not on the system it shows something is wrong with the way communications with developers and how the whole change has been handled. All we want is the problem fixed -- finger-pinting at third parties does not, IMHO, cut the mustard.

I want to agree with you and we are very conscious about that the 3rd party developers are extremely important for us all (as the rest of the community). If we wouldn't have them, Joomla! wouldn't be what it is today. This is one of the reason we manage the Extensions Directory and the Joomla! Code (there 3rd party developers can host their open source extensions for free) very actively.

Thanks very agreeing this is important - but how soon is this going to be fixed?

For the Extensions Directory, we only list active projects with a responsible developer (group of developers). One of the reasons are that we want the extensions maintained if security vulnerabilities are found. If we get any indications of issues about an extension or if the dev site become unavailable, we contact the developer. If we found that an extension has become abandoned, then we unpublish the extension until someone take it under their wings. We continuous discuss within the working group how to improve our services and how to handle different issues when they arise. We also active discuss with the 3rd party developers and the community, like we are doing now.

You are a great guy but I am sorry to say this sounds a bit off topic/diversionary -- the problem is that the new system does not work and it was a mistake to introduce it until it had been tested.

What I want to point, is that we active work with the Extensions and they matter to us.

Fine - but how much they matter is indicated by the quality of systems management devoted to ensuring that the system works. I know you are sincere but look at it from a developer's point of view. The words are cheap.. it is the lack of diligent system administration and its consequences, with which we have to contend.

The question is how long is this problem going to be with us.. 

Thanks again

david

[vizion2000]

I n my last posting when I referred to developers I meant those of us who use joomla and its extensions to build websites. I did not mean those who developed extensions.

Just thought I should make that clear so there is not confusion.

NB I thought I had already posted this comment but it seems to be missing from the thread.

[Tonie]

Since yesterday, all 3rd party developers that indicated that they want their project migrated and have provided joomlacode credentials, have been migrated. With this, they also received a tutorial how to quickly publish their project on Joomlacode, and change the download link in the extensions directory (2 minutes work). We sent two email to 1400 developers, from which a 1000 never answered. We are going to try and reach them again (this will be done tonight). We're not going to host extensions on joomlacode/joomla extensions directory when 3rd party developers do not reply to email. That said, we will specifically target project on jed that still point to Forge, to keep as many of them as possible.

The current status can also be found here: http://dev.joomla.org/component/option, ... ,33/p,318/.

This migration is not a funny thing for anybody, this has cost us (very approximately) more than 600 man hours of work already, and we're not finished yet, and have to deal with loose ends. This is energy we would have like to spend on other things.

When the migration is over, I will create an evaluation post, providing the reasoning and choices.

[vizion2000]

Since yesterday, all 3rd party developers that indicated that they want their project migrated and have provided joomlacode credentials, have been migrated. With this, they also received a tutorial how to quickly publish their project on Joomlacode, and change the download link in the extensions directory (2 minutes work).

Good - pleased to hear that

My impression is however that this has been done rather late... :(
It means that one email was sent out early and no tracking was done despite not having received replies from approximetely 75% of extension suppliers.  >:(

This means the plug was pulled far far too early and noone was really tracking the problem. You are really lucky to have got replies from 25% from a single email. Why were emails not beeing sent out every 2 or 3 days???

Having said that I am glad someone is now starting to pay attention.

I am really sad to have to say that IMHO this whole exercise appears to have carelessly addressed and botched from day 1.

We sent two email to 1400 developers, from which a 1000 never answered. We are going to try and reach them again (this will be done tonight).

We're not going to host extensions on joomlacode/joomla extensions directory when 3rd party developers do not reply to email.

The only people who will suffer if you do this are your users.  :(

Email addresses change..  >:(

people can be away. 

But more importantly the projects, and their files, are invaluable to your users. 

If you do not carry them it is the Joomla Community of users that suffer. 

Even if extensions are bugged the code they have is always caopable of being modified and used by members of the Joomla commuinity.

PLEASE LISTEN TO US.

We need those files back -- all of them!!

The current status can also be found here: http://dev.joomla.org/component/option, ... ,33/p,318/.

So please commit yourselves to continue keeping all those files available WE NEED them.

Thanks

[vizion2000]

This migration is not a funny thing for anybody, this has cost us (very approximately) more than 600 man hours of work already, and we're not finished yet, and have to deal with loose ends.

Didn't someone work out, at the planning stage, how much time this was going to cost? Or did someone fo blithely into this without working out the consequences?

If they did work out the time costs then presumably thedecision to make the change was done on that basis.. so why make a point of it? 

If they did not work out the time costs in advance planning was far from good.

This is energy we would have like to spend on other things.

OK So why invest all that time and energy with a single result.. breaking a system that worked

Does anything really make sense here

When the migration is over, I will create an evaluation post, providing the reasoning and choices.

Seriously - for me as a user the migration will not be over until all those files which are so valuable to us are back and readily accessible.

OMHO This has been the worst foul up in joomla's history - IMHO far far worse for users than the famous break up and I am astonished that anyone could have let this happen

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION to this-- it really matters to the community as a whole

Thanks for listening

David
[/quote]

[Pomond]

Hi David:

Although I personally feel your pain (I can't download joomlaXplorer right now), I think you need to cut these guys a little slack.  What's done is done: Carping extensively about what should have been done, how the process should have been organized better, etc. won't do anyone any good at this point.  Constructive criticism is one thing, but your comments don't seem to be too helpful.

Maybe it's the tone you use: I do think that the issues of the missing extensions and broken links need to be resolved, but you might "catch more flies with a spoonful of sugar than a gallon of vinegar."  Or maybe you can leverage your project management experience into this effort  by doing some volunteer work for the team: This might help ensure that your concerns are heard during the process of making these decisions.

That being said, I do think it would be helpful to have alternative download locations available for the more popular components  that are now offline due to the forge migration.  This is something that could easily be communicated via these forums.

[vizion2000]

Hi David:

Although I personally feel your pain (I can't download joomlaXplorer right now), I think you need to cut these guys a little slack.  What's done is done: Carping extensively about what should have been done, how the process should have been organized better, etc. won't do anyone any good at this point.  Constructive criticism is one thing, but your comments don't seem to be too helpful.

I  agree you have a point. It would be easier for me to be wholeheartedly with you, (personally I would have preferred to be in a position where I could be praising the joomla team for how they had responded to the difficulties once the extent of the problems was visible), however  my response to a string of over defensive comments, implications that developers were to blame for the mess, was to feel let down and angry. 

Following your comments I went back over my contributions and, in addition to my very direct critique (I acknowledge it is not easy to take such directness - however accurate it may be) I see  touches of humour, sprinkings of popcorn , praise for constructive reponses, and the door being constantly left open for more sensitive responses from the joomla team while inviting some rethinking.  Unfortunately, so far, there has been no concrete evidence of that.

I would not claim to have behaved perfectly in any dialogue and if anyone is offended by the way  have conducted myself then please accept my apologies.

Maybe it's the tone you use: I do think that the issues of the missing extensions and broken links need to be resolved, but you might "catch more flies with a spoonful of sugar than a gallon of vinegar." 

True O sage -- 

Or maybe you can leverage your project management experience into this effort  by doing some volunteer work for the team: This might help ensure that your concerns are heard during the process of making these decisions.

I hear you.. unfortunately there is a limit to the number of projects to which I can (and do)  contribute. Maybe I am a hard taskmaster but my view, when working on a project, is that it should be quality driven and therefore the quality of analysis made by anyone determines the degree of support for proposals. IMHO valid critiques from non-contributors must outweigh poorer quality arguments from assiduous contributors. Above all the ability to respond with integrity to critiques is, IMHO, essential in an open source world.

That being said, I do think it would be helpful to have alternative download locations available for the more popular components  that are now offline due to the forge migration.  This is something that could easily be communicated via these forums.

Thanks 
-- this is in line with my responses and I think this is the direction we need to convince the Joomla team to go. The value of all those archives is invaluable.

I do not think we can, in the communities interest, keep quiet and thereby encourage the loss of any part of the resource to the commuinity.

Thank you

david

[Tonie]

Breaking a system that worked.

This is definitely wrong. Back in january, Forge was failing badly, there was about 8 hours of downtime per day. It couldn't handle the load it was taking, and there was no solution for it. Second, Forge cost us a lot of money as a project. This made the decision easy, but not as controlled as we would have liked. We chose Gforge, and immediately offloaded the Joomla project to there. This kept us with two development environments, which wasn't the way to go. We had no choice but to accept that we had two environments, and we had to start a migration for which there was no proven track, documentation or any reference at all. We also had to learn the system as we got it.

Even if extensions are bugged the code they have is always capable of being modified and used by members of the Joomla commuinity.

If people want to take over a dead project, fine with me. Just say the word, and we give you the source code of the project you want to fork and you can start a new project on Joomlacode. It has happened before with projects, akocomment has been forked, and opensef is originally based on another SEF solution.

We will never support projects on JED or Joomlacode where we can't contact the developer(s) of a project. In Mambo time, there was an basically unsupported directory just like Forge/Joomlacode. Half the projects were dead, with a lot of them created with bad code. Last summer, there was an influx of hacked components, 90%  of them coming from dead projects. Security alone is enough reason to not allow dead projects.

The Forge/Joomlacode and Extensions Directory has been a big success, one of the biggest since starting Joomla!, we will definitely do all to keep this as it is.

About not showing regret

You have no idea how much this whole situation pisses us off that we didn't have things finished before this monday. Did we do a big foul-up as you say? If we started out with a situation that was working, and was good, yeah. With Forge being Forge, we didn't have much of a choice to jump the plank. I know how much time and energy has been spent on it, and I know what happened during that time. One thing I will always defend, the people that are working on the migration are doing one hell of a job. The most important thing is that we have software now which can't be downloaded, and we're going to do all we can to remedy that.