Sandbox

wow..I just slogged through this entire thread and its been very enlightening to say the least!

I'm all for forming a JUG in the Tampa Florida area (no jokes please).  I know of at least 3 other J!ers in my 15k person burb that would probably be members.  Hardly a day goes by without a request for J! services in the Craigslist forum for this area.

I'm way too junior a member to know if this is viable or politicallly incorrect, but how about a link on the main page of this site that lists local JUG's?  Is there such a link now?  I did a search for "tampa" and "florida" and nothing came up.    Maybe this post will at least let others in my area know that the interest is there!

Is this post still alive? As to the last post; I would agree.... that a link from the main page to find user groups in my area would be great. I could find people who could help me and vice versa. I'm in the NYC tri-state area and I think I only know of one person who uses Joomla. I know there must be thousands here (in my area) but ..... where to find them?

SoulSolution -

There are plans for a Joomla!Day in Manhattan this Fall (September, I believe.) You might want to post into this thread and let others know of your interest. There is also talk of getting a User's Group going in that area, as well.
Right now, things are very busy at Joomla! with the Beta 2  out and all efforts are pushing for the release. So, nothing more sophisticated will likely come for Joomla! Users Groups until Joomla! v 1.5 is on a server near you.

However, LOTS of Joomla! Users Groups are starting and we are keeping it very simple. All you have to do is post in the Joomla!Days and Community Meetings forum that you are interested in getting together in your area of the world and looking for at least one other person to help make the conversation a bit more interesting. Then, find a place to meet.

We started a Joomla! User's Group in Omaha, Nebraska (US) and meet for Coffee and it is FUN. I highly recommend folks do this.

Once v 1.5 is out, I hope that we can get better organized so that community members can find one another easily. But, for now, this works.

All the best!
Amy

Edit: Ooops! You too, MrRoyce! Post in th Joomla!Days and Community Meetings forum. There have to be LOTS of Tampa Florida residents interested. (Why would I joke about that? said the woman from Nebraska!)

The events team are currently finalising the work to allow better publicity etc for all types of joomla events including joomladay andJUG

AmyStephen wrote:SoulSolution -

There are plans for a Joomla!Day in Manhattan this Fall (September, I believe.) You might want to post into this thread and let others know of your interest. There is also talk of getting a User's Group going in that area, as well.

Thank you. I have posted there. Appreciate your help.

I talked to a guy today about Joomla, and he mentioned a dotnetnuke group in central Iowa, near where I am from. I mentioned the really active online communities, such as forum.joomla.org and the RocketTheme forum, but it would be great to have a group to actually sit down and either share successes or questions with. I have a good friend with whom I can bounce graphics ideas for websites, sometimes with just pencil and paper, and it has been a real learning and growing experience.

Any progress since the thread seemed to slow down a few months ago? I know Joomla 1.5 has taken an incredible amount of energy and attention.

MrRoyce wrote:wow..I just slogged through this entire thread and its been very enlightening to say the least!

I'm all for forming a JUG in the Tampa Florida area (no jokes please).  I know of at least 3 other J!ers in my 15k person burb that would probably be members.  Hardly a day goes by without a request for J! services in the Craigslist forum for this area.

I'm way too junior a member to know if this is viable or politicallly incorrect, but how about a link on the main page of this site that lists local JUG's?  Is there such a link now?  I did a search for "tampa" and "florida" and nothing came up.    Maybe this post will at least let others in my area know that the interest is there!

How's Tampa going? I'm about to start ramping Chicago up.

montano wrote:Having local UG's for support is redundant and unnecessary IMO.

If there was no use for support in a face to face manner, there would be no use for hack rooms at Joomla day.  We could just do it all online.

For many, they thrive in an online community, and 6 people across the world can have a conference page and work out the solution to a problem lickity split.  But their not the sum total of the world.

Heck, I even think UG's should have forums.  When someone wants to use a PMS component, there are half a dozen good ones out there.  Which to use?  Given a choice between the best technical solution used by a hundred people, or an acceptable solution used by a dozen people locally - I'd recommend the one where you can talk to people locally.

I basically think a UG should be whatever the Users want it to be.  If you don't want support, great!  If someone else does, great!  If you want to tell someone else they should not give support, bad.  If someone else wants to tell you you need to provide support, bad.

As for the logo, as long as it is non commercial, I think it's best leaving many options to the UG.  Maybe a logo superimposed over an Apple would be more meaningfull to people from NYC.  Wheras a mini logo posted across the state of Texas would tell people in texas what they need to know.  If we all use the logo as is, without making regional changes, there is no differentiation.  Of course, there are also limits to morphing it.  *shrug* I dunno.  It's Joomla's logo, so Joomla does have the right to dictate usage.  I just think there needs to be flexibility in usage.

The most important thing UG's need is a way to get from the Joomla site to the UG site.  Outside of that, I would say forget the idea of official/non official and concentrate first on getting user groups to meet. 

See next post...

Well, as we all know, it's a SLOW ROAD when you're going it alone, but JoomlaChicago is finally off and running!

http://www.JoomlaChicago.com

Our FIRST meeting will be Wednesday, November 14th, 2007 from NOON - 1:00 PM at the offices of Acquity Group.
500 West Madison St.
Suite 2200
Chicago

- Bring a Laptop, (optional)- we have wireless access
- Come prepared to share ideas and solutions
- Focus is on professionals in business, non-profits, government, education
- Bring Your Own Lunch
- Free, but bring IDEAS to share
- Go ahead and email me any SITES you'd like to showcase in-person, or on JoomlaChicago.com ([email protected])
- Only ONE HOUR - in and out, back to work or school with ya!
- Let's have some fun and get our heads collectively around this amazing piece of OS software!

Thank you to both the CEO and VP of Acquity Group (http://www.AcquityGroup.com) for offering the use of their incredible conference room to host this monthly event (free) on the SECOND WEDNESDAY of each month, to stay in the "Loop" on Joomla!

GO TO http://WWW.JOOMLACHICAGO.COM to RSVP. 

NOTE: YOU MUST PRE-REGISTER, as building security needs all names of good folks like you who may be going up to the offices in this building.  This building is the Chicago and Northwestern Terminal ("Metra"), so NO NEED for suburbanites like me to spend cab fair! 

I have deleted numerous off topic posts in this thread.  Further off topic comments will be removed without notification.  This is a valuable thread for many, lets keep it nice and clean please. 

Hi there, I figured I'd post here since the topic came up for discussion, and other than the usual point to the, imho, useless entrees on Joomla Logo usage(basically, if I read them directly the only way I can see to use a Joomla logo is to completely have ZERO local user group identity whatsoever and just use the Joomla logo.  Pointers to different user groups and how they use it would be helpful.  At the very least, an email contact form for permission that actually worked would be great.)

So, anyone here have any thoughts on which of the logo's proposed for our local group would pass Joomla IP muster?  http://www.joomlanyc.org

The last logo is sweet, but I think there might be some objections.  The first 4 I think are ok, unless there is a problem with saying Joomla when pointing out what your group is supporting.

garyamort wrote:The last logo is sweet, but I think there might be some objections.  The first 4 I think are ok, unless there is a problem with saying Joomla when pointing out what your group is supporting.

I agree. The last two are clearly violating the Joomla! Logo Guidelines. I love the first, with the Empire State Building but also - my favorite is the lower case jug with the face of the Statue of Liberty. You must include the ! with Joomla! - whatever are you thinking? (In all seriousness, that's part of the spelling of the name.)

Thanks for sharing - those are really cool!
Amy

AmyStephen wrote:
I agree. The last two are clearly violating the Joomla! Logo Guidelines.

I figure it is the Joomla teams call on whether or not to let us use it.  A strict reading of the logo and name rules leads me to conclude that I can't use the name or logo at all unless I use it by itself without any regional flavor.  Personally, I think that would be a dumb call on the Joomla teams part - but if they want to keep the precedent that they want to not support local Joomla user groups, I'm fine with it.



But seriously, I see the rules as either insanely strict, or a strict stance taken to make sure any deviations get approved.  Which would make sense if they took the time to actually make approvals(and posted what has been approved in the past)  Only problem is, they don't reply to requests for approval(could it be the time of year?  )

I was thinking it might make sense to take one of the other logo's without the Joomla logo, and then resize the Joomla logo to fit underneath them, ie
*Local Logo*
*Joomla Logo* Joomla!

But again, I have very little interest in doing that if I risk a slap down in the future by the Joomla directors for doing so without approval.  Naturally, once we have a logo, I'd like to submit it up to Cafe Press for any locals who want to show their membership... another reason to avoid the Joomla name or Logo.  While we are lucky enough to get free meeting space and free treats brought in for the meetings, other User Groups might need to use these types of things to raise funds to cover their costs.

You must include the ! with Joomla! - whatever are you thinking? (In all seriousness, that's part of the spelling of the name.)

Basically, I was thinking I don't have the graphics design skills to do it, so I opened up to our mailling list members and asked for help.  These are what I got. :-)  Not sure I really want to try to modify the logo beyond cutting out whichever one we choose.

The Logo Guidelines were published a couple of years ago and that is what the community is going with. Joomla! has an exclamation point as part of its name. Another one of those things, it's just the way it is!

Hope that helps!
Amy

AmyStephen wrote:The Logo Guidelines were published a couple of years ago and that is what the community is going with. Joomla! has an exclamation point as part of its name. Another one of those things, it's just the way it is!

Hope that helps!
Amy

Kind of like certain coffee shops calling large coffee something else.  I still order a large though and they figure it out.

Hmm, ok, so since I lack the skills/patience to add an ! to the name, I'll drop any logo with Joomla in the name then.

Thanks! Narrows down my choices assuming I get no response from Open Source Matters(of course, my members might suprise me and donate some more logos)

I would not recommend you change someone else's creation, given copyright issues. However, it would make sense to provide feedback to these artistic designers. Point out for them the Joomla! Logo Guidelines and Brand Manual. Point out specific issues a submitted logo might have. Recommend changes to bring compliance.

These are obviously talented people who I am certain have kept source files. It would take very little effort, on their part, to add the exclamation point to the name, for example, and resubmit an entry. My guess is most, if not all, would prefer that option to simply being dismissed without such an opportunity.

I am uncertain what question you asked OSM. We need to remember - everyone who is part of a named role at Joomla! is a volunteer. OSM is a very small team. They simply do not have time to answer questions if we are able to answer those questions for ourselves, given material already available.

Stay encouraged, Gary. NYC Joomla! User Group is fantastic. In large part, because of you. I thank you for your contributions to the Joomla! community.

Amy

AmyStephen wrote:I would not recommend you change someone else's creation, given copyright issues. However, it would make sense to provide feedback to these artistic designers. Point out for them the Joomla! Logo Guidelines and Brand Manual. Point out specific issues a submitted logo might have. Recommend changes to bring compliance.

Quite frankly, I find those guidelines to be a waste of time.  They don't guide anything.  Basically, I came away from reading them saying "It is impossible to use the Joomla logo at all unless you use it by itself"

The name was slightly less confusing, but still consfusing enough with their "seperation" clause, as far as I know it is not possilbe to say Joomla! User Group because you have to seperate the word Joomla! from everything else.

All their examples basically are just the Joomla logo with nothing else around them.  The only usefull example I see is that they say not to change the colors/background(which makes the third logo not possible).

It's also from that that I would /not/ add an ! to Joomla.  This way I am not using the Joomla! trademark as without feedback from the IP holder, I refuse to take the risk for a user group with 0 income that will never have income.

I am uncertain what question you asked OSM. We need to remember - everyone who is part of a named role at Joomla! is a volunteer. OSM is a very small team. They simply do not have time to answer questions if we are able to answer those questions for ourselves, given material already available.

They have a permission form for asking for permission to use their Logo for commercial use(not not non-profit use).  So I used that form and asked which of the logo's they would approve.  In the end, it's their IP so it's their call - due to the past actions on the part of the Joomla team regarding Intellectual Property, I feel it is best to get permission than hope I'm reading guidelines correctly.  So my question was fairly simple: Which of these logo's will you give us permission to use.

The form, however, doesn't work(if you try to upload an image, the form will forvever loop refusing entry because you didn't fill out a field that was filled out).  So I didn't actually upload the imagery, but instead simply asked them to take a look at the url(still unsure if they got it as it gives no email feedback...but I did my best to work with them and give them a chance to build stronger user group ties.)

Keep in mind, I think that it is very right and proper for them to have draconian standards and then to approve exceptions rather than work the other way around.    I'm just trying to find a way to communicate with them while at the same time soliciting community feedback(maybe someone will come out with 'you idiot, for non profit use you send email to XYZ... which was clearly listed on page X'

At the same time I do welcome feedback.  Knowing that they might ask for the ! to be placed in the name is good to know, but if they don't have the time to reply with a yay or nay or suggestion of an alternate for my current questions, I'm certainly not about to take the time to ask the designer to add something when as far as I know I can't even use the word Joomla! in the logo at all(wheras since joomla is not trademarked, I can get away with that.  So I'd tend to do that and let them say they would really like the ! there and that they give me permission.  This way my legal ducks are covered).  So I'm certainly happy to hear any feedback I get, I just for very legal reasons won't take anyones statement on how they interpret something as something I can run with without getting sued by OSM.

If anyone knows examples of usages that have been approved, I'd love to see them.  Not the stuff in the guidelines, but images where you actually combine the Joomla logo or name with a local logo to make a logo specific to a group or company. 

I find the Guidelines to be very clear. I hear you repeating what the guidelines state, so I don't believe there is any confusion. I also hear you saying you don't like the guidelines, but unfortunately, we won't always agree on how to do something. It's a mighty large, international community. We're going to each want to be a little flexible. 

Branding is all about being precise. It's about building identity and immediate recognition through a name and/or a logo or a color or a song, etc. The guidelines were written by professionals and our community was really fortunate to have that expertise freely shared with this project.

Joomla! is our name. As positive members of this community, I think we should each want to help build that identity. That does not mean, however, that Joomla without an exclamation point is not protected. It simply means we are named Joomla!. 

Again, with minor changes, most of the *beautiful* submissions you shared will be perfectly acceptable. Let the artists know. I doubt it will take much effort for these improvements. If shared in a positive spirit, I am certain you will receive a positive response.

Now, if your request to OSM for logo use is for your own commercial use, then, please, let's keep that discussion separate from the Joomla! User Group issues.

Thanks,
Amy

AmyStephen wrote:I find the Guidelines to be very clear. I hear you repeating what the guidelines state, so I don't believe there is any confusion. I also hear you saying you don't like the guidelines, but unfortunately, we won't always agree on how to do something. It's a mighty large, international community. We're going to each want to be a little flexible. 

Actually it's not a matter of like or dislike.  It's a matter of can I promote my user group with regional flavor and promote the Joomla! brand, or not.  The answer to that questions, according to my reading, is no I can't.

Joomla! is our name. As positive members of this community, I think we should each want to help build that identity. That does not mean, however, that Joomla without an exclamation point is not protected. It simply means we are named Joomla!. 

I have no interest in promoting the Joomla brand at the cost of not being able to build our local user group.  I already have enough trouble getting the word out, having a distinctive personal logo will help.  If I can't have that and promote the Joomla! brand, well, too bad for the Joomla! brand.

Again, with minor changes, most of the *beautiful* submissions you shared will be perfectly acceptable. Let the artists know. I doubt it will take much effort for these improvements. If shared in a positive spirit, I am certain you will receive a positive response

Well, you stated my interpretation is correct.  My interpretation says changing the word joomla to Joomla! will put us at odds with the guidelines because then it is not portrayed in a seperate/distinct manner enough.

Now, if your request to OSM for logo use is for your own commercial use, then, please, let's keep that discussion separate from the Joomla! User Group issues.

No, I used the commercial permission contact form because OSM doesn't have any other manner of requesting permission.    The usage is for a local user group, not for profit(as opposed to non-profit).  That doesn't make our usage commercial, it just means that is the only way to request permission. 

Right now I have a good core group of a dozen people showing up and 20 more members who may or may not show up.

So it's time to go to the next phase of promotion...to promote /our/ group and Joomla. 

Timing wise, it would have been nice to have it 2 weeks ago in time to have our logo added to the OrgCom site, http://www.orgcom.info/Holiday

Still, the next phase is to send out invitations to the local colleges and see if we can get some of them coming over.  Having a logo and cafepress stuff setup so students who get the bug can wear shirts, knapsacks, etc with our logo and promote the group around campus would be good. 

If we can get a good core of up and coming developers showing up, I'd like to focus that energy onto projects.  Setting up a website for a non profit.  Crushing Joomla bugs.  Rewriting a 1.0 extention for 1.5  Etc.

All of that means promoting the group and Joomla.  I'm more than willing to work with OSM to promote the group, Joomla, AND the Joomla brand.  But I'm not a risk taker.  If the way we're promoting the brand might have them sending us a cease and desist letter, and my having to pull all the promotional material and rework it...well, I'm not interested.

It is far easier to explain that we don't use the Joomla brand due to legal difficulties, than have to explain that we had to change our own brand due to legal problems.

Will any of this materialize?  I dunno.  It's fun trying to put it together though.

Gary -

I encourage you to share these ideas and issues with other members of the NYC Joomla! User's Group and, together, I am certain you can brainstorm some possible solutions. I hope that I have helped.

Good luck,
Amy

Dang, y'all think too much.

FYI, JoomlaChicago is coming along nicely. We're taking it slow and steady, not trying to bite off more than we can chew or grow out of the nice quarters we've been given to use on the 2nd Wednesday of every month.

If you DON'T like human contact, don't join JoomlaChicago, or any other user group.  If you LIKE eye contact, if you LIKE learning from folks who can host-administer-write-manage-code in their sleep, and actually enjoy sharing their thoughts, then by all means, get out of your zip code and enjoy some time among folks like you, to get up to speed.

Ask "stupid" questions; get SMART answers. 
Don't worry about office politics or the 1990's mentality of being the "smartest one in the room" We're all learning together!
Make some dang good contacts - socially, intellectually, professionally.
Don't worry, you won't have to enter your questions in a SEARCH box on the white board. You'll actually get real live, warm bodies with gray matter (and a healthy dose of it) to give you real-life answers - benefiting the whole group.

I am amazed on a DAILY basis at the level of energy, intelligence and pure drive by our members to simply SOLVE problems. Love it, love it.  I'm a lucky duck.

Friends,

At long last we have an OSM process set up for registering and creating a directory of Joomla! User Groups. If you are running a group or creating a new group, please come on over and read our FAQ

http://www.opensourcematters.org/content/view/99/70/

and then register

http://www.opensourcematters.org/content/view/96/65/

We'll be doing a real announcement soon, but you the people on this thread would be early adopters that would be great.

Elin

Iamanearlyadopter.com



GREAT to see progress on this, Elin, the Joomla Queen. 

THANK YOU from da windy city.


PS: I already need to make a change on the application. I see we can use an informal name, "JoomlaChicago" but for your formal name, we need to call it:

Joomla! Chicago Group

Sorry.

Joomla queen .... I like that.


Do you think I should have a field that is informal name?

The formal name would be Joomla! User Group Chicago.

Yup, our informal name would be: JoomlaChicago

Formal Name: Joomla! User Group Chicago

I bow again to the Joomla Queen, and toss a couple sheckles in the jar by the door to pay for the heat in the palace.

Anyone got a good book on time management?

Holy smokes, user groups are cool - but man-o-shevitz, I need a cliffnotes version of how to get from A to B.

Thanks! I just signed up for the Joomla! User Group Dallas / Fort Worth (informal name: Joomla!Dallas)

Awesome!