Sandbox

jdg wrote:Slogan for Joomla!
If we do want a slogan, it has to be one that conveys the feeling, the essence of Joomla! We should be focussing on what Joomla! is to us, what it means to us, where it comes from and where we want it to take us.
We all already know what Joomla! is and those who don't know Joomla! yet will read the product description or a review. What these new people don't have, is what we feel with Joomla! That's what's needed to be conveyed to people new to Joomla! We should share the feeling we got to make them feel the same way...

Hi jdg,

i agree to most of your point - but not to the point i quoted:
What joomla! is to us is in the name. But there are several countries where "Joomla!" won't be easy to sell to (business)customers because of the way it sounds.  So let the name be for the community - the slogan should help making the name "serious/professional" - something that helps the community to sell this great program to the rest of the world.

Those who like the name Joomla! don't need a slogan - but those (customers) who dislike the name (because of whatever their reasons are) should be caught by the slogan.

I think it doesn't matter what feelings the new slogan will bring to us (the community)[because we already KNOW joomla and USE it] - we should take care what kind of feelings ALL THE OTHERS will have.
Freedom is what it means for us - Success is something endusers want to have - no matter how this success was made possible, but matter how much it costs

Joomla! - the road to (your) success
Joomla! - assuring (your) success
Joomla! - formula for (your) success
Joomla! - success by evolution

To summarize: I think there is a target group for a slogan: The endusers, not those who made the page!

Comments on that?

tyndal

jdg wrote:That is, if we need a slogan in the first place, because Hannelore does have a good point me thinks..

I agree with you and Hannelore.

jdg wrote:(phew... my longest post ever )

A well considered and inspiring post. Thank you.

Tyndal wrote:

jdg wrote:Slogan for Joomla!
If we do want a slogan, it has to be one that conveys the feeling, the essence of Joomla! We should be focussing on what Joomla! is to us, what it means to us, where it comes from and where we want it to take us.
We all already know what Joomla! is and those who don't know Joomla! yet will read the product description or a review. What these new people don't have, is what we feel with Joomla! That's what's needed to be conveyed to people new to Joomla! We should share the feeling we got to make them feel the same way...

I think it doesn't matter what feelings the new slogan will bring to us (the community)[because we already KNOW joomla and USE it] - we should take care what kind of feelings ALL THE OTHERS will have.
Freedom is what it means for us - Success is something endusers want to have - no matter how this success was made possible, but matter how much it costs

To summarize: I think there is a target group for a slogan: The endusers, not those who made the page!

Comments on that?

tyndal

Yes, I do have a comment on this actually. What you are refering to is a marketing campaign. What you describe is what you would typically do with a targeted advertorial campaign. E.g. if you would take Joomla! as a product and try to sell it to well defined audience such as businesses, you would have some sort of a slogan like you suggested.

However, what Joomla! is, is more than that. It's a community and the community has taken matters in their own hands after recent occurences. That's a feeling and that's our and Joomla!'s strongest point. IMHO that's what Joomla! is all about.

Joomla! isn't sold, Joomla! isn't 'a' product, it's being used, it's being improved, it's being enhanced, it's a statement, it's people, it's a community, it's a feeling, it's freedom, it's everything, it's all together, it's Joomla!....

Tyndal wrote:we should take care what kind of feelings ALL THE OTHERS will have.

Exactly my point. But IMHO we should try to give them the feeling WE have. Because what we feel is what makes Joomla! and not what others feel.

If we didn't have freedom, we wouldn't be succesful (because there wouldn't be Joomla! to begin with), and without us being succesful, no enduser will be succesful either. The freedom is the umbrella for everything else.

I agree with you when you say that there's a target group for a slogan. There always is, but it is dependant of the context when you target a group. What you mention is a targeted marketing campaign; then the 'success' slogan should be used for that.
Right now we need a slogan for the community to make others, outside the community, feel what we feel with Joomla!
And this will, if it's a good slogan, also be inspiring to businesses; I really don't see why it wouldn't.

If we can convey our good feelings about Joomla! to others, it can sure enough be used in a business environment as well because it will still convey the good feeling Joomla! will give you, the enduser, too..

Clarence ("orbitant") suggested: "Infinite possibilities". Why not "Infinite freedom"? It includes infinite possibilities, but everything else mentioned here as well. It'll also give endusers a good feeling; they get 'Infinite freedom' when they got Joomla! And Infinite freedom can also lead to success... And it includes our feelings with Joomla! and what it represents to us.

Well, as I stated earlier I'm not much of a slogan writer, so maybe someone else can elaborate on the "Infinite freedom" concept. But IMHO we should think along those lines.

Hi jdg,

as i said: emotionally i agree with you... but rational thinking let me disagree.

Freedom... well, a very important thing in our world! A very nice word, too. But very meaningless to business (it can mean freedom to quit work/cooperation, too). What's freedom worth for business? All over every business you'll find contracts, licenses and so on. There's no freedom at all.
Here we are ~3.5 thousand users, everyone owns 3 personal websites... that makes 10,000 Joomla!-Installations worldwide... let there be 500 webdesigners having 100 customers each... that would be 50,000 Joomla!-Installations... so i really believe that those business-customers should be the main target group.
And they have not been part of our "revolution" - they don't have the feeling and no slogang can give them this feeling.

Some years ago there was a "Flower-Power"-revolution... for sure they had very strong feelings about their revolution and their freedom... but i can't even imagine how they feel... i haven't been a part of that... words can't give me their feelings. "Save the world" sounds good... but what does that mean to them? I still see pollution, i still see wars, didn't they reach anything with their "freedom"?

We know how we feel - that's said with the word Joomla!.

If there is CMS A which offers me safety, power, usability, success and another CMS B wihich offers me freedom... uh... i guess i'd take the first one, how about you?

Joomla! is a word for all those who have taken part in this (r)evolution - they won't forget it's meaning, they won't forget it's feelings, (they won't forget it's freedom) - new users doesn't know anything about the background, they know nothing about our feelings.

Well, i repeat myself, sorry for that.

I'll use Joomla! no matter what it's name/slogan/logo is or will be - just because of the chances it offers for me.

By the way: Is there a deadline for the new slogan? Is there already a pre-choice of some terms? Is there already a slogan choosen? Anyone know that?

tyndal

Tyndal,

Bare with me here, as I will have to play the devil's advocate right now (this it isn't meant personal in absolutely no way!!!).

If you're so concerned with the commercial viability of Joomla! and it's backing slogan, why on earth haven't you chosen Miro/Mambo instead? It would be the rational decision, since Mambo is backed by a competent commercial firm, hence the trustworthiness of their CMS solution should rationally rank higher. Joomla! is OpenSource and only backed by a community of volunteers, more volatile than gasoline and more inflamable too (see what happened recently). That's in no way a trustworthy solution to your business at all... what will happen next week?

Now to come to your webbusinesses: they selll webspace and offer a CMS. Their endusers would love a CMS with 'Infinite freedom', wouldn't you (now think as a customer of theirs). They're not looking for something that'll make them succesful; it's John and Jane Doe that want to have a website and come to the webbusiness just for that...
We both are talking on different levels, I think. You talk about businesses that have a commercial offering around Joomla! and I'm talking the endusers, which in the end make up the community. The community isn't just the people involved in development (core or third party CMTs), but the endusers... That's what the feeling is about, that's what the slogan should be aimed at.

Imagine this: You have a sports clothing store; Nike comes with the slogan "Just do it"... do what? Just sell it? Noooo, it's targeted at the consumers... Just do it, win at all cost, just win; that's what Nike tries to convey to the consumer. The consumer picks this up and feels good in Nike's stuff, he wants to win, he wants to just do it. The businesses selling Nike profit from this, although Nike's slogan isn't aimed at them...

Commercial viability is very dependant on market demand. John and Jane Doe must want it, otherwise is a commercial disaster.

So, to come back to my previous posting: I don't see any conflict of interest with businesses if we get ourselves a good slogan that represents OUR feelings with Joomla! In fact, it will make Joomla! even stronger (and easier to sell if your in that business), because it is so close to US, the people that make Joomla! to what it is. If we can relate to the slogan, everybody can and that's powerful.

For the record: I do have a commercial offering around webhosting/Joomla! too, so I'm not just "blattering about" .

Tyndal,

Hang on, I catch your drift now. You probably meant businesses as customers of the webdesigners...
In that case, nothing changes either. The webdesigners can easily make their own slogan for Joomla!
In fact, for the webdesigners it is more important to sell their own services than to sell their tools. They shouldn't sell Joomla!. They're not selling Apache or PHP or MySQL either. They should sell themselves. And when they do, they'll sell Joomla! in the process... regardless of Joomla!'s slogan.

I still don't see a conflict of interest...

jdg wrote:Tyndal,

Hang on, I catch your drift now. You probably meant businesses as customers of the webdesigners...
In that case, nothing changes either. The webdesigners can easily make their own slogan for Joomla!
In fact, for the webdesigners it is more important to sell their own services than to sell their tools. They shouldn't sell Joomla!. They're not selling Apache or PHP or MySQL either. They should sell themselves. And when they do, they'll sell Joomla! in the process... regardless of Joomla!'s slogan.

I still don't see a conflict of interest...

Ok, as english is not my native language it's sometimes hard to point out what the hell i'm talking about
And no, i do not take anything personal - in fact i LOVE the way we (all) can discuss different meanings with respect and without "troubles".
For the records: I do not own any webdesign-business - and i'm not going to have some in future as taxes are what i am working with 
While reading through different threads and reading a lot of opinions i picked up that many webdesigners are afraid of the name and maybe the slogan and logo... well, there are other cms around (typo3 to name one) they can switch to - but they have their heart right here at joomla! - therefore i think we should try to please their wishes as well as the wishes of the rest of the community.
Those caring about the freedom have the name
Those caring about business may have the slogan
Those caring about other things can have the logo

mh... guess that won't be possible.

I share your opinion that they don't sell apache, mysql and php either, so they shouldn't worry about the name of "the cms" they are selling. Most customers don't even know what a cms is...
I just thought that it would be nice to help those who are afraid about the name with a "easy to sell"-slogan.

Well, i'm really looking forward to hear the new slogan...

greetings,

tyndal

Tyndal wrote:
Well, i'm really looking forward to hear the new slogan...

Joomla your Website!

Since the name of this CMS has an exclamation mark already it is imperative (commanding, ordering, suggesting), like "NIKE, just do it".

Go ahead and joomla!

My 9-year old niece asked me, if I could help her to joomla her homepage. See?

People have the habit to project something into something new. There are always prejudges before we know the facts. If someone hears about "joomlaing websites" it could mean:

Color your website!
Relaunch your Website!
Make your website part of that special community!
Commercialize your Website!
Tidy up your Website!
Speed up your Website!
Move your website to a better hoster!
....

Just joomla your website!

There is future in and individualism.

* INDIVIDUALISM:
Every webdesigner can tell their customers, how he or she would help to joomla the clients homepage. "Hey, Mr. Webdesigner, my competitor told me, he is going to joomla his website. What is he talking about? My business is a funeral parlor/online pizzeria/book shop/...  Can we joomla, too?" And then it's up to the webdesigner to say "Of course! Joomla is especially right for funeral parlor webpages." And so it is for non-profits, women's sites, senior's - you name it. The only thing you have to do is: Joomla your Website!

* FUTURE:
Yes, we like the freedom of open source right now, in a critcal time, and want to express it. I have joined Mambo for more than 2 years (or was it 3 ?) and there were critical times before. Those, who will meet Joomla! next month or next year don't have this experience. They only will stay with this CMS, because they learned about the software and the community behind, and all they want is Joomla! at that time, how it is then.
Accessibility becomes more and more important and "Joomla your Website!" can stand for "make your site accessible!" when the tables in Joomla! are gone. Who knows what demand instead of "accessibility" will be there next year, in two years, in ten years and later? Who knows the future of the Internet??? And what Joomla! will be? But you can still "Joomla your Website!"     

So, go and

JOOMLA YOUR WEBSITE!

and others will follow and joomla their websites, too.

(Maybe even Google will consider to joomla?)

Joomla - It's what joo need!

Joomla - Empowering You to Empower the Web.

Buddy
http://www.tangerinefiles.com
http://www.buddyquaid.com

hannelore wrote:JOOMLA YOUR WEBSITE!

Hi hannelore,

i see what you mean an i even can imagine it... but:

"joomla your website" can't be used in german speaking countries.

We do have formal and informal language (formal for business, informal for talking to friends), so

informal we would say: "Joomla deine Webseite" ... sounds very strange to german ears.
formal even worse: "Joomla(en) Sie Ihre Webseite" ...  :o NO WAY to say that, no way.
Joomla! doesn't sound like a verb... Google -> "googlen" -> fine; Download -> "downloaden" -> fine; Joomla! -> joomlaen -> iihhhhh

Well, where i live english is quite an unknown language... most people speak russian.

Mh... i like your idea of joomla! being a stand-alone-word, but it's hard to imagine it would work in german-speaking countries.

regards

tyndal

Hi, Tyndal
I agree with you.
I couldn't find the results of the marketing survey, but in general I feel that we are thinking too much about ourselves (what $ambo used to mean to us, what Joomla means to us, how disgusting $iro's attitude is to us...). But, what do other people think of this process? Does anybody else care? We are not the ones  to be convinced of the goodness of Joomla, are we?

I do think we need a slogan because there's not an 'oligopoly' of giants in the CMS field as there is in the search engines' one. $iro has the name ($ambo) but we have the people who built up that name. Moreover, this is not the same world it was back in the nineties when Google was founded.

Let's try to see things from a neutral user's point of view:
What would they do if they needed an easy way of managing the content of a website? Of course, search the web for CMS's.
Once Joomla appears in that list you don't need to explain what it is in its slogan, just attract people who are searching with their hand on their hearts as well as people who is searching with their hands on their wallets. From a practical point of view you have to address both groups.

As for the name of the CMS, it has two main cons, IMHO:
1.- Phonetically, the double 'o' reminds of Google and Yahoo!
2.- Graphically, the exclamation mark reminds of Yahoo! and also means shouting, in a way. We don't need to ressemble a search engine nor to shout to be understood.
Once the name is chosen, let's remove the ! at least.
(Note: my preferred options are at http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... l#msg19939)

Here I agree with Tyndal again: it would be nice to help those who are afraid about the name with a "easy to sell"-slogan. And I'm taking the word "sell" in a broad sense of "get people to know and to use something" not necessairly involving money.

So, to make it short, my proposal for the new slogan is

Joomla - It CAN be that easy

Note: I don't have nor work for any commercial website or business. 

Tyndal wrote:"joomla your website" can't be used in german speaking countries.

Tyndal, there can be objections to my suggestion, but not the German language.

How does NIKE tanslate "Just do it" into German? Mach's mal - Mach's jetzt - Mach's einfach? Right! They don't translate it.
I am with a German provider, their name is "Domainfactory" and not "Domänen-Fabrik".

And by the way: How would you translate "Beach Volleyballclub" if there was one, for example in Dresden, Germany? 

Nix für ungut! I am German myself.

Grüße nach Sachsen!

Joomla! "Do It Better"

... as an italian ... what else? 

Joomla! - Whatever You Want!

What do you think about sentences like these:

Joomla! connecting people

or

Joomla! putting people first



Now a simple question:

Why a slogan in english? the future of a cms has to be multi-language and why we do choose a good slogan in english that translated it can be a bad one ?!

Well instead of a slogan, describe what the cms is: simple fast and powerful and STOP.

Joomla! simple fast & powerful

AND ALL can be easily translated in any language!!!

Do you agree, joomlers?

Joomla! connecting people    <---- this wont work because there's already:

NOKIA - Connecting People

bedlam wrote:Joomla! connecting people     <---- this wont work because there's already:

NOKIA - Connecting People

You're right! very sorry but how about:

Why a slogan in english? the future of a cms has to be multi-language and why we do choose a good slogan in english that translated it can be a bad one ?!

Well instead of a slogan, describe what the cms is: simple fast and powerful and STOP.

Joomla! simple fast & powerful

AND ALL can be easily translated in any language!!!

Do you agree, joomlers?

Rather than favoring English or another language people use.. how about a slogan in a language no one uses  Latin!!

Carpe Textus

"Seize the Web"

carpe: seize, grab hold of
textus : woven cloth, web.

"The power of a community"
"a men story" or a "story of men" (my english is not so good )
"an attractive experiment"

And what about "a new dance" 

I would like that the top-gun-pro-marketing consultant that helped to chose Jooma for a new name reads a: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887306667/102-2006428-1481761?v=glance ).
I'm specially suggesting a 2nd law. Of course mentioned consultant knows what I'm talking about so I will not bother much more

- Welcome in the Joomla!

dorjano wrote:I would like that the top-gun-pro-marketing consultant that helped to chose Jooma for a new name reads a: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887306667/102-2006428-1481761?v=glance ).
I'm specially suggesting a 2nd law. Of course mentioned consultant knows what I'm talking about so I will not bother much more

as per our information please what is that 2nd law! I do not want to buy any book...

Joomla - It CAN be that easy
Joomla - Sí puede ser tan fácil
Joomla - Si, aussi facile que ça
Joomla - Doch, es KANN so einfach sein

xperis wrote:Rather than favoring English or another language people use.. how about a slogan in a language no one uses  Latin!!
.....

Well, why a died tongue!


You can chhose a slogan in english. But the future of a cms has to be multi-language and so we do need a good slogan in english that translated it can be a good one even!

And for avoiding problems in translation, instead of a slogan, describe what the cms is: simple fast and powerful and STOP.

Joomla! simple fast & powerful

AND ALL can be easily translated in any language!!!

elmoch wrote:
Joomla - It CAN be that easy
Joomla - Sí puede ser tan fácil
Joomla - Si, aussi facile que ça
Joomla - Doch, es KANN so einfach sein

I like your experiment, please try again with other slogans. yes joomlers We do choose a perfect slogan for a multi-language world!

newart wrote:

dorjano wrote:I would like that the top-gun-pro-marketing consultant that helped to chose Jooma for a new name reads a: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887306667/102-2006428-1481761?v=glance ).
I'm specially suggesting a 2nd law. Of course mentioned consultant knows what I'm talking about so I will not bother much more

as per our information please what is that 2nd law! I do not want to buy any book...

Oh, sh!t I'm getting old Actually I meant 5th law. So there it is:

...
5. The Law of Focus: The most powerful concept in marketing is owning a word in the prospects mind. A company can become incredibly successful if it can find a way to own a word in the mind of the prospect. Not a complicated word. Not an invented one. The simple words are best, words taken right out of the dictionary. Federal Express was able to put the word 'overnight' into the minds of its prospects because it sacrificed its product line and focused on overnight package delivery only. You can test the validity of a leadership claim by a word association test. If the given words are computer, copier, chocolate bar and cola, the four most associated words are IBM, Xerox, Hershey's and Coke.
o Crest = Cavities
o Mercedes = engineering
o BMW = driving
o Volvo = safety
o Dominos = home delivery
o Nordstrom = service
...

This is from a mentioned book!!

"you just need your hands" (refer to this logo)
or
a tool for your hands

Joomla! la la la ...

It's a melody!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be continued from the community!