XE-media

[newart]

well, I haven't seen the last post by Brian, but the solution is the same! 

[Vimes]

I happen to agree with you, but I'm not a lawyer and somebody up there rightly pointed out that there might be legal repercussions for do that, therefore I'm happy to leave that particular decision to somebody in OSM proper.


While typing this newart said the same thing, more or less, and my reply to him is the same.

[brian]

Yes there could be legal issues if it isnt done properly. That is why my "changelog" idea is more neutral as it includes "all" extensions that are removed and states a simple reason. There is never a legal issue if you are accurate and truthful and treat everyone the same

[newart]

Of course the problem is on a legal aspect, now. But if you use our extension, you have to agree with our conditions...

I hope who's involved in legal matters can have a good solution for that  :)

[newart]

@ Brian - the problem is always legal if a site can say Joomla is damaging our business.

[brian]

Only if the statements are untrue and unverifiable

[Vimes]

Here's a suggestion:

If you get shoddy service from a developer and want to say so then make sure you REVIEW THE EXTENSION. If your review should also mention that you had poor service then that's likely to be included as we generally don't edit reviews except to remove links to own sites.

Dig around JED, you'll see reviews that I know I've approved that mention rubbish service because it does constitute a full review of the product.

[brian]

Ah but when the extension is then completley removed how does the usnsupecting user know. Especialy as the same extension could be on a google advert on the page.I know that if I was xe I would be making sure I got a googleadvert on every JED page with the word video on it.

[Vimes]

You really know where to find those bags of worms, don't you Brian?

[LorenzoG]

You can find a huge difference. Now we actively don't help the affected developers to market their products through the Extensions Directory (Since we believe this isn't in the communities best interest to have them listed). Of course, since Joomla! is released under GPL, everyone can do and market their extensions/services and advertise.. throught Google, through Magazines etc.

[newart]

but the main focus isn't about how to stop them or something similar... Our idea is to be more informative with our Extensions users, I think that if you don't help someone, and you can... you're guilty. In moral / aethical / legal terms.

Internet is knowledge, you know. As Brian said that "Ah but when the extension is then completley removed how does the usnsupecting user know. " I know you have no reply, any logic reply at this...

In other environments this hidden problem would be dangerous! Please think of a flight company with no Black List at all. Are you happy, satisfied with no official warnings... This isn't that case, we have no life issue in this CMS but an example is only a "stupid" way for saying that there is a need of a practical and honest decision / solution.

I dislike the idea: I log out of my site and so I have no responsability...  [another stupid example] But if you know, well... are you to Joomla or to them? [/another stupid example]

[Vimes]

but the main focus isn't about how to stop them or something similar... Our idea is to be more informative with our Extensions users, I think that if you don't help someone, and you can... you're guilty. In moral / aethical / legal terms.

I've already given you one way that you can get your opinions about an extension's support noted.

Remember, this discussion is in the context of JED. As editors our primary focus is to ensure that valid reviews of extensions are published. We're not the Joomla Extension Police and don't want to be, that's for OSM to manage, if appropriate. All we can do is ensure that JED's integrity is not compromised, which we have done.

[newart]

All right, as per your last explanation I have nothing to say more now. I'll follow Joomla taking into account that when possible and if I can (as everyone can do it the same) I'll review all extensions used by me and I'll encourage users to do the same. On my own I consider your behaviour as the best one.

[Vimes]

I look forward to publishing your reviews

[newart]

I look forward to publishing your reviews :)

Thanx a lot Vimes  ;)

Added in modify post --> take into accout that atm I'm interested only at 1.5 products.

[aravot]

I think instead of removing an extension or blocking a developer it would be better to have a section / category for these with a Warning / Notice message for users (like how SMF is doing), the reason I say this because sometimes the problem lies with the user and not the product and they start blaming the developer and God forbid if the developer is on vacation or has other things to do (family to take care of) and does not reply in time users start bad mouthing the product and the developer everywhere.

After all how are users going to know about a product if not through JED.

Something like

[Vimes]

We all know that dev's can't be there 24/7 (even if some clients demand it), that somedays you just have to say "to hell with everything" and walk away from the PC for the rest of the day. I had a (gasp) day like that just this week.

If a developer generally gets good or adequate reviews then a snotty review, while published, will be treated with a pinch of salt but it'll still get approved if it's a valid review. It's not our job to decide if a review is accurate or not, only that it is one. The developer we are discussing was banned because of blatant abuse of the system and consistent poor reviews, indicating a serious problem. They were given the opportunity to come back to us with a plan on how to resolve these issues but instead accused the JED editors of fiddling votes and general bias, but never actually responded to the editors.

[horus_68]

maybe going off topic but agree with "aravot" not only about one specific extension but about all extensions with problems.

- if you remove the page at JED (after the formal procedures) and I have a link to that page at my "personal favorite txt list at my computer" or when I want to check if there is any developments, reviews or updates... the only thing i get its a page for the removed extensions.

A real case: today with an extension that some time ago I thought it would interesting
(staticXT - http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/ )

- I got the message:

The page you are trying to access does not exist.
Please select a page from the main menu.

- Now I don't know what was the trouble with it! Bad url, Security issues with the extension, JED rules, removed by the developer, what?!
- I could go to the developer site but... if it was removed its a bad (alert) sign!
- And if I had that extension installed... should I remove it?

Now I have to search at Jforum for news about it... for a information that you already have!

Idea/Proposal:
- It would be a better solution to keep the original JED extension page, in a locked state, with an alert message about the problem.
- You could strip the outgoing links also.
- Those extensions pages should go to a special category... an easy way to check extensions with problems.

This way everybody would get a clean and safe information
Also, it would be a nice way to end with orphan projects

[brian]

My 2c thats a good idea

[LorenzoG]

Idea/Proposal:
- It would be a better solution to keep the original JED extension page, in a locked state, with an alert message about the problem.
- You could strip the outgoing links also.
- Those extensions pages should go to a special category... an easy way to check extensions with problems.

Thanks, definitely worth to discuss how we can inprove the information about unavailable extensions.

A real case: today with an extension that some time ago I thought it would interesting
(staticXT - http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/ )

It was unpublished due that the developers webpage and download don't work.
http://www.joomlaxt.com/

[brad]

...Some not too bad comments and suggestions in this thread. Good work.

What about the fact that an extensions is missing from JED itself. I can only think of one extension developer who does not list their component on JED but is not 'forcibly' prevented.

Isn't that enough warning to a potential user of an extension? And, the least work for the editors.

I'm just trying to get a focus on all the suggestions that have been given so far.

[brian]

Not sure I follow your logic Brad.

[6thstreetfisherman]

i just read threw this hole topic and i never understood the extension review thing period.

why is there any reviewing of people reviews other than maybe editing out cuss words?

What one person thinks is a valid review another may not but if a person took the time to write a review good or bad it should be seen by all.
 
also authors should have a chance to responded to each and every review without someone moderating there responses.

i understand the fraud part of this thread that shouldnt be put up with but i personal take the rating stars with a grain of salt. it a marketing thing for people to inflate there star rating it happens on every site that offer downloads look at downloads.com .Dont think most of the rating stars on the products there are full of it and inflated .I read the customers reviews. it how i make my choice.

there should be a staff review.in the staff review they can note any problems or warning in there review.

than a customer review part that shouldnt be moderated other than deleting out cusswords .


anyways just my 2 cents .