Sandbox

Yes, there have been some good options discussed here and whatever the decision, the success will be based solely on the participation. My site is just sitting there, so if you want to use it, great! My feelings won't be hurt if not. I think the interest to bring people together in more of a "community development" effort is a great idea and just what we need in light of the current direction of Joomla!

Ok I see Rogue would be happy with a name just a few things I've been thinking about for a start, looking at the 3 major points you rised earlier:
for beginner, peer relationships, collaborative projects, brainstorming:
joomlapioneers
joomlanet
joomlanetwork
joomlabrainstorming
joomlascheme
joomlaexplorers
joomlapeers
creativityjoomla
bloomingjoomla
wittyjoomla
joomlastudents
joomla adventurers
joomlaknowledge
joomlamaniac
joomlabrains

Ok I'm not sure there is a winner there I need to sleep and think it better tomorrow   hehe

FYI. This thread has been brought to the attention of Global Mods and Forum admins.
We are now discussing how we could help here.

We will be back to you soon. 

What about J-Dev.net?

dartagnan32 wrote:Ok I see Rogue would be happy with a name just a few things I've been thinking about for a start, looking at the 3 major points you rised earlier:
for beginner, peer relationships, collaborative projects, brainstorming:
joomlapioneers
joomlanet
joomlanetwork
joomlabrainstorming
joomlascheme
joomlaexplorers
joomlapeers
creativityjoomla
bloomingjoomla
wittyjoomla
joomlastudents
joomla adventurers
joomlaknowledge
joomlamaniac
joomlabrains

Ok I'm not sure there is a winner there I need to sleep and think it better tomorrow   hehe

I think...

:::::: Joomla.Org
|
::::::: Forum.Joomla.Org
|
::::::::::::: Joomla! Application Programmers @ Forum.Joomla.Org
( where everyone, beginners and experts alike can throw ideas
  where we post 'good' codes then yell for help
  where our finished 'products' get to be used by others,
  where the experts look at our efforts and may help out )
|
:::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla! Application Programmers Gateway Website
( where we do post bad our codes, try our ideas, and watch in horror )
( where we do discuss our bad codes, without the experts having a whale of a time laughing )
( where we share codes )
( where we make initial discussion on new ideas, which later on get promoted to Joomla! Application Programmers Forum )
( where we find new friends in the same boat )
|
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website      ( where we do our own projects and joint projects )
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Joomla Individual Programmers Website


Also, we need somewhere to put up our newly developed software for people to download.
We can of course do this at our website, but by putting it on what i call the Joomla! Application Programmers Gateway Website
would allow us to setup a showcase of all our extentions collectively.

This is because we don't want to put it up on Joomla.Org as yet.
We know how bad our codes are so we don't want anyone downloading our codes and finding their website crashed to think it comes from Joomla! Core. No. We want them to think it came from ...pal.

The differention i make is Joomla! Core Developers and Joomla Application Developers.


The names don't matter to me. All i ask is a place to start talking about codes, extensions, modifications, bug-fixing, then happily throwing codes out without the worry that some senior Joomla! moderators frowning at me. This protects Joomla! and at the same time allows us freedom to code in peace. It also protects our good reputation in case we start going commercial individually at some time in future.

Imagine doing this in the General Discussion or Developers Forum !

Above all, this J!AP place should be *Fun*, with free beer and crisps. 

unixboymd wrote:What about J-Dev.net?

sounds good to me. just add the J!-Dev, to indicate its origins.

i'd go for J!-Devils.  lol.

Along the lines of Louis' post
On the Joomla Dev site, could ther be like a beginners section there? Maybe linked to a discussion forum here.
I am thinking some sort of blog, or exercises, code snipit kind of thing listed to a component.
Maybe Coding 101 section.

Just thinking out loud here, but if we could somehow meet in cyberspace, and set up a biweekly assignment that posses a challenge. Then everyone could submit their solution. I have always found the 100 ways to skin a cat approach can be very productive when learning.

And to follow up on Amy's idea we can have scheduled classes, maybe in:

::::::::::::: Joomla! Application Scheduled Classes @ Forum.Joomla.Org

Something like:

Class: Ian's tutorial on the MVC
Coordinators: Ms X and Mr Y
Start date and time: xx-xx-xxxx ;
Pre requisition: None
Description: bla bla bla
Website: Joomla Individual Programmers Website

jonascw wrote:And to follow up on Amy's idea we can have scheduled classes, maybe in:

::::::::::::: Joomla! Application Scheduled Classes @ Forum.Joomla.Org

Something like:

Class: Ian's tutorial on the MVC
Coordinators: Ms X and Mr Y
Start date and time: xx-xx-xxxx ;
Pre requisition: None
Description: bla bla bla
Website: Joomla Individual Programmers Website

aye, thanks for this *excellent* idea.

This is really exciting. Such great ideas that everyone has! And, it sounds like Infograf will be looking into possible workspace. Also, I talked to someone with good background in creating extensions who might join us. There are a couple of others I want to talk to, as well, to see if they will help guide us.

I am definitely in favor or J!-Devils. hehe! Love that!

Keep the brainstorming going!
Amy

If you're looking for momentum on this, by all means add me to the docket. Thanks Amy for letting me know about it. Kind of feels like a "farm team" for the core team trying to start.

My credentials: Professional embedded systems software engineer 1977-2006 (30 years), currently a systems engineer with a Virginia aerospace company. Of the basket of languages I know, PHP is the newest, C is the most frequently used professionally. I would rate myself as an intermediate level PHP programmer. I don't have a ton of OO experience, only a couple years worth (not full-time), but I do "get it". BSCS 1979, MS Systems Engineering anticipated summer 2008. I have developed a handful of Joomla extensions ranging from trivial modules and mambots (plug-ins) to one full-fledged component and a few Community Builder plug-ins. Go to joomlander.net to get a taste.

Regarding having a place to put code we develop (maybe you already know this)...I believe joomlacode.org is appropriate. It's not like it's meant only for core CMS code or anything. It's just a Joomla-specific rendition of SourceForge, which believe me has a lot of open source code of this nature. As I understand it, the person who creates a new project owns it and can add other members to the project team. It provides change repository services via Subversion.

I do think it would make sense for there to be a Novice Joomla Developer forum here on forum.joomla.org, but I fear it would be where novice developers come for help rather than to become part of something larger. Would this end up being the blind leading the blind? Or are novice-to-intermediate developers the best (and most willing) to give advice? Hmmm... I think we might also benefit having a Wiki, which can have a more structured format. I tend to get lost in forums after they get deep with posts.

I think the best way to get on the road to being a Joomla developer is to get involved in a small project or be given a small part of a larger project. I tried doing this when I started, but discovered that established projects with established teams are hard to gain momentum with. Small, informal projects don't generally have grand plans (like Joomla 1.5 does), so it's difficult to communicate what's going on and what's needed without a good development and collaboration plan. With Joomla 1.0.x, I kept getting the same message when I started: that the best way to learn is to look at other people's code. In my opinion, that's a bad way to learn an API because you never know the knowledge or skill level of the author. That's why I started with my own small projects and a single community Joomla site. I found needs of my own and developed extensions for communities needing the same capabilities, eventually building up to a total of a dozen Joomla sites, each with different needs. Along the way, I slowly learned the "right" way to do things, in particular regarding writing secure PHP applications for Joomla. It's a lot to absorb. If we could do something of immediate value, it would be to develop beginner level examples; complete ones with explanations of not only WHAT is being done but WHY and how NOT to do it. We will continue to benefit from the experts in all ways, so having a level of visibility to them would be invaluable.

One other thing...We should inform novice developers what tools work best (editors, debuggers, test platforms, SVN clients, etc.) and be willing to help with that sort of thing also. Many will already have favorites, whereas others will be clueless (like I was).

Hope this takes off soon and I can continue to be a part of it.

Are we looking for a domain name or a subdomain prefix?

How about "joombies"? World Wide Words says 'round Brisbane, a joombie is “a member of the burgeoning peasant underclass”, presumably the equivalent of the British chav'

I saw earlier in this thread that the core mods are monitoring. Any chance a group like this can integrate into the joomla.org domain? I think the dev community would benefit from having a motivated group to help run novice-level interference for the core team.

Thoughts?

bascherz wrote:Are we looking for a domain name or a subdomain prefix?

How about "joombies"? World Wide Words says 'round Brisbane, a joombie is “a member of the burgeoning peasant underclass”, presumably the equivalent of the British chav'

I saw earlier in this thread that the core mods are monitoring. Any chance a group like this can integrate into the joomla.org domain? I think the dev community would benefit from having a motivated group to help run novice-level interference for the core team.

Thoughts?

Joombie certainly fits! lol!  Love that! My "thought" is that we would be very fortunate to have you join us! I think that staying in Joomla.org - using a Novice Joomla Developer forum and JoomlaCode makes a bunch of sense. I very much believe we will get support that way.

Thanks so much for joining us!

@Matt - is that ten of us, yet? Maybe let this discussion roll during the early part of next week and see what kind of interest builds.

Good stuff!
Amy

Maybe let this discussion roll during the early part of next week and see what kind of interest builds.

Count me in  

You guys will have to keep me in the kindergarten room though... will require nap time and may be a little shy about show and tell for the first bit.  Just diving into php myself these days, but I look forward to having a network with all of you to learn as I go along.  Looking forward to contributing as well where I can.

As for a home on the Joomla! forums, that is still being discussed.  Looks positive, just give us a bit to work it all out. 

Thanks guys and girls for this initiative and all of your contributions thus far.  It is so nice to see this kind of enthusiasm and communication taking place here

Let's keep the ideas rolling in!

Tim/Mat, feel free to get in touch with me so we can put some of these suggestions into action around here.. Skype is fine.

Talk to you there.

The pressure has overwhelmed us

Enjoy: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/board,452.0.html

Tim, Matt, all the best moderating this excellent initiative. I wish you all the best.

Excellent, thanks! Tim and Matt - thank you, too! Hopefully, soon you will have your hands full! 

Amy

Thanks Much all of you for this, kinda like a sweet dream. And ever so exicted about this new forum, i thought i'd be the first one to post heh   ;D

And since many people from all over the World, especially those new and not so conversant in the English language, might not immediatelty understand what the 101 means, i thought it'd be appropriate to clairfy what 101 means, in a simple brief topic of the inaugural post, by way of a code by itself.

Thank You, Thank You and Thank You. 

BTW, i noticed that the seniors and heros here, speak of J! direction. Being a newbie, what is it that has happended that this 'direction' is refered to ? Has there been some kind of shift in orbit or something ?

Hopefully someone can elighten me on this, as good people you would know better and this here i think is the right place to ask. I'm aware Joomla has won a couple of awards for being the best CMS next !pal. Other than that, i had the impression that nothing quite significant had taken place ?

Nothing significant has taken place. But there are those out there in the J! universe that would have you believe otherwise.

Pay no attention to the wizzard behind the curtain.

unixboymd wrote:Nothing significant has taken place. But there are those out there in the J! universe that would have you believe otherwise.

Pay no attention to the wizzard behind the curtain.

Thank You, and Good Bye. All the best to all of you.

jalil wrote:BTW, i noticed that the seniors and heros here, speak of J! direction. Being a newbie, what is it that has happended that this 'direction' is refered to ? Has there been some kind of shift in orbit or something ?

Hopefully someone can elighten me on this, as good people you would know better and this here i think is the right place to ask. I'm aware Joomla has won a couple of awards for being the best CMS next !pal. Other than that, i had the impression that nothing quite significant had taken place ?

jalil,

This article on the main site sums up the current direction of the Joomla! project: http://www.joomla.org/content/view/3510/74/

The discussion of Joomla's direction is a bit off topic.  I'd like to get things back on topic, by announcing the opening of Joomla!Coding 101.

Thanks for all the contributions thus far, and to the Joomla team for giving us this opportunity.  We're excited!  As you can see, we're serious about bringing this initiative about and making it happen.  We still have a ways to go, but it's a great start!

I'll be spending a lot of time this week listening to feedback to get this forum up to speed.  Keep it coming!

Hi to you all Im really happy and excited over this project/forum!

I think it,s important that we try to do something together - it's not so important what we do but that we do something.

And the idea of having a class could be a good start imo.

I don,t know what we will need to have the classes but some have mentioned a wiki, so why not put that up. We maybe already have some volunteers.

jomaco1 wrote:My site is just sitting there, so if you want to use it, great! My feelings won't be hurt if not. I think the interest to bring people together in more of a "community development" effort is a great idea and just what we need in light of the current direction of Joomla!

bascherz wrote:I think we might also benefit having a Wiki, which can have a more structured format.

tjay wrote:If you decide to go website at some point let me know, I would be willing to help out
I know enough coding to get in trouble lol

If Amy could volunteer for being the coordinater, or maybe suggest some one else, for the first class It would be very good. Then it's just to roll the dice, pick a date and time and start.

I think it's not so important that our first attempts are successfull, if we fail we just learn from that and try again.

I also think that encurage ppl to do what they want is important so if some whants to put up a webpage for this group we should just accept that, if or when it become a problem that we are too devided/fragmentized, then we can discuss that and find a solution. But to keep the momentum and spirit up I think it's important to let ppl do what they want.

In my vision we are trying to build a neighbourhood, and I suggest that everybody should build their houses, gardens or hippy camps as they want. I will visit anybody who serves free beer and food:-)

Yes, I do think it is important that we have a few modes of communication.  This is really the beginning, to help germinate the idea and begin to bring things together.  A wiki or some sort of other mode would also be good to begin things.

I can foresee several things planned for this forum in the way of faqs that will describe:

• Tools you will need to participate.
• Some basic information and rules of thumb for getting a joombie team together, participating on a team, and what to expect when you join a team.  Teams can be formed for directed study, project work, and other assorted training and / or programming topics.
• Peer supported Q / A threads for those who may have some beginning programming questions in general / information about the group, etc..

That's just the very beginning.

I think we're moving along at a good pace, but let's be sure not to rush anything.  I expect to see a few more posts to talk about how we'll go about getting a group together and getting started on something.  The first group is going to be the guinea pig to see what will work and what won't work.  The whole concept itself still needs some work, and I think some of it will be done in true 'trial by fire' style that will give us some experience to see what works and what doesn't.

I do think everyone should have the freedom to do what they like to do, but we do want to get some specific focus so we can start instating some initial things to get started.  It may be the case that people will be involved with multiple groups - a project group / directed study group / code practice.  There are a great deal of possibilities we can build upon.

Tools you will need to participate.
Some basic information and rules of thumb for getting a joombie team together, participating on a team, and what to expect when you join a team.  Teams can be formed for directed study, project work, and other assorted training and / or programming topics.
Peer supported Q / A threads for those who may have some beginning programming questions in general / information about the group, etc..

Great start. I would think adopting recomended tools would make it easier when we run into a problem. Often a problem gets more complicated because people are coming at it from different perspectives. This can be due to tools being used.

I am no coder but I'm very interest in this initiative to gain a little web development experience and I think Joomla would be great way to start--the best open source CMS and best community around.

I might be interested in something like this too.  I'm not a pro at PHP, but I know a little.  We're also looking into using Joomla at the company I work for and it's going to need some fairly major customizations to meet our needs.  So as someone who is trying to understand Joomla I would be glad to offer all the information that I learn as I go, but I need some serious help understanding it too.

Some of this code just doesn't make sense to me.  So if this is the sort of group that could help others and myself getting started and learning all the little ins and outs of developing for the system, I might would be interested.

Hi All,

Having read all the above (Amy lured me in to that from http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg935987), I think the initiave is good on the basis of learning things. On the other hand, as louis mentioned, one has to be careful not to setup ANOTHER Joomla community if you get my drift.
The last two years I had a hell of a good time working on and with the Joomla community. Lots of help from the devs wich leaded me to be able to do the conversion of 1.0 templates and modules etc. Learned a lot. So I became quite attached to that group of people.
What I have been thinking  of lately, is the large number of extensions that are around and that would be of great use in a 1.5 environment. So I am more looking at somebody making making an inventory and people like me taking their pick and be responsible for converting that particular extension. There are of course cases that once you start on something to convert, you might as well do a re-design and than it is interesting to use Ian's MVC to set up a new extension completely according to the Joomla framework.
A good idea is used at the Rockettheme forum. They have set up a poll to get a list of templates that people want converted. The highest ten will be converted. May be this could be done by some clever chap for most used extensions that people also want to use on 1.5.

I would like to help out, but always in the spirit of the Joomla community.
(My daughter-in-law should here me say this, she would be over the moon. A professional IT person like me converted to OpenSource .)

pvh123 wrote:On the other hand, as louis mentioned, one has to be careful not to setup ANOTHER Joomla community if you get my drift.

This sir, i'm afraid, you just cannot stop. It has already happened.
The sole prupose we came together here *is* to form another community, focused on coding.

If you look at the list in the Joomla Forum, there are Joomla communites for quite some countries and i believe this will keep growing and is all healthy. Why this fear of another community i don't quite understand. The sheer license is open source, meaning people all over the world can do what they wish with the source code, only not permitted to cliam originality. This is the sole reason why Joomla is the Joomla we see today.

Only by letting go will Joomla fly.
If there are specific reasons why another Joomla community should not exist, then ok, take it all back, and i'll say bye bye to Joomla.
And i'm not interested in the reasons either. I've seen enough. Just say no.

I want to see lots of Joomla communities. I want it to grow. But what i want may not be what you want. Since i'm a newcomer to Joomla, i view this as a 'you're not welcomed' sign to all newcomers who are interested in Joomla coding.

So what do i do now, turn around to those behind me and tell them
" no, no guys, Joomla don't want us around, lets go find another or make our own" ?

....

if you truly speak for Joomla, and if not having another community is a policy and rule to be followed, be it inside Joomla or outside of Joomla,
then i would accept it, though it makes me a little sad.

i really don't know, who actually owns Joomla, it may very well be your goodself, but i find this cautionary stateman a stinging blow to me personally, one small user who decided that Joomla is the way to go.

i don't like it at all. if you tell me to go away, i gladly would. so please please do..shoo me away.
i do not need Joomla. i like it a lot. there's lots of other things i can do in life.
i'm broken hearted waaaahhhhhhh.!

* wahhh...gotta find another nest man...! lol *