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Mambo Graphics in Sydney would be MOST upset if there was any evidence that Miro/Mambo had ever put out any promotional cloting items with the Mambo name on them.
Just a thought....

To Elpie... oops I meant Mambo Graphics... you are correct I have amended the post.

downunder wrote:To Elpie... oops I meant Mambo Graphics... you are correct I have amended the post.

I knew exactly who you meant    Just thought I would add the wee mention of something that may be of interest to them when you write to them. 
If lodging your objection to the registration Miro seeks is going to cost you any money, please let us know here.  I can chip in something towards this.  It is too late to stop the registration of "mamboserver" or "Mambo CMS" though and time is running out for objecting to "Mambo".
I agree that everything that can be done to stop that name being trademarked *should* be done.
Otherwise we all run into a potential minefield of problems should we need to have any explanations on our sites.  Even a "using xxx, formerly known as Mambo" could run us into legal problems if they get that name trademarked.

I don't see this as an "us against them" issue at all (and couldn't care less what Miro do these days) but I do see real problems ahead for many of us if the Mambo name is trademarked in the classes which relate to software.

Why, MercedesAMG, thank you for your kind words... Do you think I should post my comments in all the forums at mamboserver?  If I do i may get banned, but if a few Newbies sees it it may be worth it.

Best way to proceed is to let it all go. Seriously, move on and support open source and the project. If a legal issue arises, then deal with it. Otherwise, I would forget anything at all about MAMBO. I don't believe we need war with Miro nor any other issues than we presently have. We need to proceed with ethics and the foundation of the GPL in mind. 

I don't believe we are in a race with Miro, I don't believe we need create softare faster than Miro, I don't believe we necessarily even have to create better software than Miro. We need create what we want and love in the spirit of open source.  I don't believe Miro makes a difference at all. I believe this project direction should be promoted on it's own completely. I believe this should all be looked at in a more global view. With a new name, new logo, new slogan, etc... It makes it all the more superior in achievment when all of this is accomplished. I don't believe Miro/Mambo should be a single moment more of our time than the years of issues have already taken.

The Mambo name means nothing now. Let them have it. They wanted Mambo back, give it to them.
Take your copy and start from there. Within 3 years this project will have grown and instilled the type of trust that an open source project and the community deserves from one another.

Look I agree with everything you say however this is not about trying to resurrect the name. It is about making people accountable for their actions. They do not deserve to get recognition for a product that was developed by others to what it is today, and making the real trade mark owner aware of the issue is not declaring war on Miro.
I have always lived by honesty and integrity and I'm afraid that the more we ignore people that don't, the worse it gets. The letter portrays my opinions and I do not claim to speak for OSM. So I am only wasting my time... but I at least have to try.

Vengence is mine saith the creator. Or whomever you believe in. If Miro is to pay, it certainly shouldn't be by this community and those who came here to follow the ethics of open source. Leave it to the open source public which is wide and massive.

Our focus should be open source and this project. One day at a time.

I could probably come up with a few biblical quotes that are quite apt but I do have ethics and I do wholeheartedly support the open source community so to suggest otherwise... well I will just turn the other cheek and end the discussion here.

downunder,

No offense intended to you partner. I'm making a few broad statements as to what I see as a wise and sound decision for forward movement. Nothing more.

Tell you I was floored when I heard about this...
Not a single mention on the old mambo forums until after the supposed beta of 4.3 was released and screwed up a few people...


I want to thank the Mambo Devs who in essence are fighting FOR US!
and I'm glad I will be able to continue to use their good works.

Sad that corporate politics and greed always attempt to screw up a good thing.
Why they call it a board of directors is beyond me because they are usually more like a board of MISDRECTORS....

The thing that made Mambo so great was the developers not who controlled the software nor even what it did....
Cause even if it didn't do something you wanted it to you knew a few posts to the dev forums and you might get what you needed...and even if they couldn't get to it some 3rd party would create a component or module to do what you wanted...

who needs a FOUNDATION when you have a COMMUNITY?

If two heads are better than one then 10000 heads are better than 10!

As far as I'm concerned I'll be using the new TO Be NAMED LATER CMS as soon as you guys release it...

I thank all the FORMER Mambo Devs and all the 3rd party Devs for their efforts!
Can't wait for the first release!

downunder wrote:Maybe not... as the acceptance is not due until 17 Sep 2005 for all but Mambo... which is 23 Sep 2006.

The date for acceptance of objections has closed for all but the Mambo trademark, so there is no point putting money or effort into trying to get those others reopened (doubt the registrar would wear that anyway).  However, there is still three weeks to go in the objection phase of the Mambo application.  I don't object to Miro having mamboserver (I think they have every right to that actually) and even "Mambo CMS" doesn't impact on anyone else to any great degree. But, "Mambo" is a different thing entirely. 

However, with all due respect, I do NOT think you should send the letter in that form to Mambo Graphics.  While I know that it is not your intention to have the letter sound like sour grapes, I do think Mambo Graphics could interpret it that way.  They don't give a hoot about what has happened but they do care if their reputation could be effected.  IMO, all they need is a short, very professional, letter telling them of the trademark application, pointing out that confusion arises when/if Miro produce marketing products such as t-shirts and caps, and that this confusion would be greater should a trademark symbol be appearing next to the Mambo name.  The fact that they are both Australian companies operating in an international market should also give them concern.

Mambo Graphics can only object to the trademark application if there is any grounds to believe there could be confusion between the brands.

I would also strongly recommend that any letter does NOT include a link to this site, or the other one for that matter.  If it is felt that they should be directed to any information on the web then perhaps it would be smart to point them to one of the news articles. 

Remember, any e-mail can be legitimately used in a court of law.  It is very important that an e-mail to Mambo Graphics be impartial and not appear as an attack on Miro.

Just my thoughts....

I would like to thank the whole "Mambo" Core Development team for taking a stand for the whole community and doing the right thing. Thankyou for all of your hard work and contribution to this project. Keep Open Source alive. And hope you guyz decide on a new name soon  .

No I see and respect your point. The following is the amended letter:



MAMBO GRAPHICS PTY LTD
83 -85 McLachlan Ave
Rushcutters Bay
NSW 2011

Dear Sir/Madam,

I wish to bring to your urgent attention a number of trade mark applications involving the "Mambo" name that have been lodged by an Australian company with IP Australia and are due to be accepted in the very near future.
The applications have been lodged by:
Miro International Pty. Ltd. (ACN 091661157)
Level 2
4 Bank Place
Melbourne 3000 VIC
Australia
Trade Marks: 1048589, 991207, 991152, 991150

Miro International developed an Internet Web Server Content Management System (CMS) by the name of "Mambo" in the early part of this century (May 2001).
The most recent application seeks to secure the trademark "Mambo" (1048589). This I believe may cause some confusion with your products in the future especially if they intend producing promotional apparel etc.

downunder wrote:No I see and respect your point. The following is the amended letter:

The fewer the better
Best regards,
Joern

Everyone over at mosplus will stay with the original development team.

I may well have been ignored it appears. But rest assured I know I'm talking about. I think you folks should take a good read at over at the "other"  forums. Miro didn't ban me from the forums and I said more about this situtation than anyone else. I didn't just say it, I said it with authority.  I am the first post that gave direction as to how to proceed based on the years of experience I have on this subject. No one else did. No not one. Not  one of you stood up and made a difference. You waited for leadership.  I have been a CEO, I understand the GPL. Forget Mambo and listen to the words I write. Too many trying to provide direction, no one willing to take it. I'm only privliged that the core team listens to the multitude of opinions on this matter. I'm only grateful we are here at opensource matters and trying our best to follow the footsteps of others before us that gave us the foundation on which we believe. This is the GPL and everything it stands for. This is how it works. I don't need the stars of membership, I don't need to be called a member, I certainly don't need a photograph of my business or person stappled to who I am. Nor would I. I just am.

The whole world is watching. It's time to start listening.

Someone PM'd me mentioning that I keep changing my post. I'm sorry. Not all can spell very well even if they have the appropriate words to say in their opinion. I type 80-100 words per minute and my accuracy fails me even after 25 years.  So I often change my posts and correct spelling mistakes when I see them. Sometimes I work on posts I've made days previous. Please forgive. I try my best to fix spelling.

downunder wrote:PS Elpie: You want to get the **** to pull the full details on you from the internet - way too much information.

It comes down to the argument that people need to be able to contact their politicians vs personal privacy. It's an argument I lost.
There are a lot of people who don't believe that the people they elect deserve to have any privacy. 

impleri wrote:Everyone over at mosplus will stay with the original development team.

Thank you impleri, This is good to know.

I think it is safe to say that most everyone will back the devs and support whatever product they come up with...
Who the hell is Miro? What component did they give us?

We liked the product because of how well it was written...
And with their current release of at best a crippled version of mambo it won't be long before you guys will be talking about how to distance yourself from the mambo name, not on how to keep it! LOL

rjs wrote:... I'm only grateful we are here at opensource matters and trying our best ...

I think most members are grateful for the existance of opensourcematters.org. And most of them will try to do the best. In her or his different manner. Just as you and me
Best regards,
Joern

oopps Mosplus ? Is that the proposed name? uw yuck. I vote for Fandango.

David wrote:oopps Mosplus ? Is that the proposed name? uw yuck. I vote for Fandango.

No, I don't think so.

There is something like "A combination of Mambo and phpBB" that is called mosplus2.
That was B(efore)C(hism) OSM, sometime in July 2005

Introduction

Since the split i was interested in knowing how the old forum is doing, so i conducted a crude scientific analysis.

Methods

I visited this forum and the old forum simultaneously yesterday evening. After logging out, i logged back into both forums this morning. Just to view how many new posts there were, i did a search for "unread posts since last visit" in both forums.

Results

The old forum, had 122 active threads since my last visit. The new forum has 2243 active threads since my last visit.

Conclusion

The old forum is dying

ibnkuldun wrote:Introduction

Since the split i was interested in knowing how the old forum is doing, so i conducted a crude scientific analysis.

Methods

I visited this forum and the old forum simultaneously yesterday evening. After logging out, i logged back into both forums this morning. Just to view how many new posts there were, i did a search for "unread posts since last visit" in both forums.

Results

The old forum, had 122 active threads since my last visit. The new forum has 2243 active threads since my last visit.

Conclusion

The old forum is dying

I subscribe to the RSS feeds of both forums - that way you can see EVERY reply and EVERY new topic/thread started - the forum.mamboserver.com forum really is dead

It's nearly 1am here in NZ and I have spent all day getting a darned site to validate WAI & xhtml strict, so you may forgive me (I hope) if I wax lyrical 
Seeing these posts reminded me of a favourite poem (The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran)
which goes, in part...

Ah fill this Cup what boots it to repeat,
how Time is fleeting underneath our Feet,
Unborn Tomomorrow, Dead Yesterday,
Why worry about them if Today be sweet?

I guess I am getting all phliosophical about the demise of the old forum (or else it really IS time to go to bed!) LOL

Elpie wrote:(by Kahlil Gibran)

"Your pain is only the breaking of the shell, which surrounded your understanding"
may also be a good emotional description of the actual situation. Even if Kahlil Gibran surely didn´t describe opensourcematters.org in his famous (i guess) poems and novels.
Best regards,
Joern 

PhilTaylor-Prazgod wrote:I subscribe to the RSS feeds of both forums - that way you can see EVERY reply and EVERY new topic/thread started - the forum.mamboserver.com forum really is dead

I noted that the questions about mambo were not being answered for the most part over there. Quite a few non answered posts indeed. I hope that newcomers will find their way over here and post their questions as they need. You almost feel like logging in and mentioning the site here, but that would just stir up more issues pointing people away from the other forums.

Moomba is the name of a water carnival held annually in Melbourne from 1955.

Some pluses I see to this name:

• It sounds a little like Mambo.
• It speaks to Mambo's Australian origins.
• It allows different acronyms to retain the M from Mambo. (Like MOS)

Whaddya say?

its also a mine in south australia.

There are tens of places using the name moomba so i dont think it would be appropriate.

besides i think the cordev team has decided on a name?

Oh, did you guys decide already?
I didn't read the whole 28 pages.

Too bad, I was looking forward to using Moomba Open Source.   

What was the final decision?