Sandbox

>>> is lacking then it would be multimedia extensions...
also joomla !

why is the best multimedia developer xe-media not listed -> extensions directory?
i think this is bad - very bad! this is a shame...best developers not found in your extensions directory!

perhaps other top developers not listed here?

aser wrote:why is the best multimedia developer xe-media not listed -> extensions directory?
i think this is bad - very bad! this is a shame...best developers not found in your extensions directory!

perhaps other top developers not listed here?

This is very possibly the case.  The extensions directory is a place where developers can list their extensions.  If they are not willing to list it themselves, then they do not get listed.  Contact the developer and request that they list themselves in the extensions directory.

Ian

i've contact http://www.xe-media.ch:

----------------------------------------------
developer said XeMedia has been blocked by joomla.org !!!

...
----------------------------------------------

why does joomla.org block top developers? i can't understand this ...sorry
better you block extensions that are not usefull...

I don't know why 
I knew XeMedia since last year (or 2ys?) and their products are GREAT! Please can anyone reply to this problem?

I don't know either...  I wonder if the developer would disclose the reason he/she was given for the extension being blocked?

Ian

just sent a message to them via http://www.xe-media.ch/software/index.p ... &Itemid=38 asking them to read this topic... waiting for news 

I have no idea why the developer is blocked, but good for it. I have bought a couple his products and when I couldn't get one of them to work, I and tried to get help or my money back, I was basically ignored.  I don't care for folks who take your money and run.  Rick

Xe-media extensions have been removed from the extensions directory for two simple reasons. The first has been using lots of clones to manipulate and artificially inflate votes on their own software. According to the rules, this is already enough reason for removing. The second reason is that we had more complaints regarding bad support than all other extensions combined.

@aser. Looking through your posts, all you contribute to is Xe-media software. You also had an account on the Extensions Directory, all you did was give votes to Xe-media extensions.

Thanx Tonie, what's yr opinion about a sort of "Black List" for this type of products...

@tonie

yes - i love xe-media products and so i can vote.
what you mean exactly with lots of clones? i think you mean to many products... but this is no reason to remove a developer!
and second what you mean with more complaints bad support? this is an extension directoy and not a support directory or not?

and i have seen that you removed xe-media extension - after that - a lot of streaming extension were voted higher!
-> shame on you joomla.org... (you should removed not xe-media)

by
aser

aser, please read tonies message again. He said, that xe-media was registering a lot of accounts to push their own extensions, which is not allowed. You also give the impression that you are doing this. Also, your language is very rude. Besides this, yes, the support a developer is giving is a reason to kick his extensions out. We want to raise a positive picture about Joomla and its extensions. If one dev destroys that trust in J! extensions because he is selling a load of crap and does not give support for his products, than we don't have an interest to support him further.

Besides that, this is a thread about discussing the release date of 1.5 and not about hurt egos. So please stay on topic.

@acer. Your email address of the Aser account with the same name on JED points at xe-digital.com, and who is the owner of that domain? Please don't insult us with this petty behaviour.

and to bring to light some insight on this:

His earlier posts in this thread:

and where are the streaming extensions? i saw nothing ...

if no professional streaming extensions - joomla 1.5x will fall down and people will switch to next generation cms like drupal!
i've heard a professional developer will develop high-end streaming plugins for drupal! why not joomla?

J1.5 to long development - and if its out - there are no good professional and multimedia extensions - simply bad:

then:

why is the best multimedia developer xe-media not listed -> extensions directory?
i think this is bad - very bad! this is a shame...best developers not found in your extensions directory!

perhaps other top developers not listed here?

and

yes - i love xe-media products and so i can vote.
what you mean exactly with lots of clones? i think you mean to many products... but this is no reason to remove a developer!
and second what you mean with more complaints bad support? this is an extension directoy and not a support directory or not?

and i have seen that you removed xe-media extension - after that - a lot of streaming extension were voted higher!
-> shame on you joomla.org... (you should removed not xe-media)

So we've gone from the poster aser wondering why there are no multimedia extensions on the 17th, to him 'loving' xe-media products on the 23rd, then we find out that he himself is connected to xe-media?  Something smells fishy to me.

Ian

yes - thats my friend. where is your problem?

you has also manipulated extension directory. i've seen higher votings after deleting xe-media extensions...
and this is true! and it was one of you ...

so you are not better then xe-media... thats more bad because never can thrust you now!

regards

So answer this question:

Why did you say there were no media extensions for Joomla! when you knew full well that there was?

Ian

I am very very sorry for intruding into this discussion but i was REALLY interested in "Topic: Joomla! 1.5 stable before August '07?" so maybe this media thing could be transfered somewhere else?

I also think that 1.0.12 is doing the job very fine and i think that it does not matter when 1.5 stable will be available only if it is simple and easy for users to go from 1 to 1.5 and if there are 1.5 compatible extensions - which IMHO can be a problem. So you (developers) don't have to hurry, only have to get the job done with all things in mind and i'm sure that the community will be gratefull and satisfied.

Agreed, have reported this thread to a moderator who will perhaps split the thread.

Ian

hmmmm....  looks like it was happening as I spoke...

Ian

Split as this had nothing to do with started topic, moving to Extensions Directory.

But the problem, I think that isn't about this topic... In this case how to move best? They use Joomla logo, I presume. There is no Black List or something that I can care of. Is there any legal matters about this problem? In theory It might be a damage in our Joomla... 

This does bring an interesting dilemma and I'm glad I'mnot the person to resolve it.

Firstly let me say that I whole heartedly support the actions of the JED team on this. And that anyone breaking the rules regarding sham voting and consistantly recieving comlaints of poor support must expect to be treated in the same way.

The problem now is how do we protect the reputation of Joomla! in this matter.

Clearly a commercial developer is not going to close their business just because they arent on e.j.org and if we are so concerned about them then perhaps there really should be a section on the e.j.org site with a simple statement listing all removed extensions and the reaosn why. PErhaps in the form of a changelog
eg
date extensionname action reason

action would log things like email/remove/suspend

reason would log things like

email sent to inform them the d/l site was down and they need to update
extension removed for sham voting

etc


I think its only fair that users can find out why an extension is missing.

Speaking purely personaly I would find this changelog very useful as I could see when a favored extension of mine is removed for an "issue" and the developer had "gone away".

One final thing to consider is that if an extension or even an entire developer has there extensions removed then it is still likely that they could place adverts on the site using googleads. So a block should be placed in the googlead account to prevent this happening

The reason for removing:

* It is not allowed for a any person to solely rate an extension to artificially inflate the rating or vote count.
* It is not allowed for the same person to have more than one account on the Joomla! Extensions Directory.
* It is not allowed for an extension developer to give negative votes to other extensions who are in competion for rating ranks, or to submit votes to extensions which offer similar functionality.
* If any of the above three rules are broken by an extension developer who has extensions on the Joomla! Extensions Directory, all extensions owned by the developer will be unpublished from the Joomla! Extensions Directory for a time set by the Joomla! Extensions Editors (starting from one month to inifinity).

This was done by a multitude of user accounts, all voting for XE-media extensions only. Second, the developer in question fails to reply to emails from the JED team. Extensions need to be maintained, so we need to be able to contact developers on the email addresses provided.

You are directly related to the developer, by using that email address and being a friend. Your sole existence on this forum is to promote their products, which is against forum rules as well. --> Any posts deemed to be self promotion, advertising, or spam can and will be removed. NO SPAM - NO ADVERTISING eg. Posting and making excessive, inappropriate and unnecessary references to your products and websites is self promotion. Please stop advertizing their products from now on.

As a rule, I don't I don't vote for any extensions myself, and have never done so. In fact, me and the Extension Directory team can only vote once for each extension once ourselves. Neither the team or me even has access to the database where all ratings are stored. The only way the ratings are changed is by new ratings from users, or by removing clone accounts that artificially inflate ratings. Just be glad that we don't normally approve reviews like this: http://www.mamboserver.com/index.php?op ... Itemid=138

If you wanted to know the how and why of the removal, the first option would be to ask the JED team this over here. Instead, you chose to use an indirect way by flaming without letting the community know what your intentions are/were.

The Joomla! Extensions Directory is a really good resource for developers to advertize their products. A lot of developers make their money/publicity from it. This is the reason we are really serious about people trying to rig the system for their own wellbeing. The team is always really serious and careful in its handling of all communication, and I can safely say that all actions to date have been more than adequate.

@brian, newart

I can see why information like this is valuable to people. You can also see that doing something like this, is like entering a minefield where not a lot can be done right and lots can go wrong. This is the same as dealing with commercial disagreements between 3rd parties and their customers.

Tony I do understand.

Thats why I suggested the changelog as being a slightly more neutral way. I assume that extensions do get removed because of developer gone away and other reasons so a complete list would be less of a "commercial" issue.

My 2c suggestion to try to help in a small way

Seems like a tough problem to navigate and it is tough to say whether one solution is better or worse than another.  On the one hand, leaving extensions up with bad press alerts users to the problems with the extensions.  But the voting thing really throws things off.

The ideal is to get totally unbiased reviews, where to draw the line on this is sometimes difficult.  I don't think a mistake has been made in this circumstance, but what happens in the example of a person using an extensions, and through the course of receiving support for said extension becomes friends with the developer?  This is where the water gets muddier.

We have to be careful too that the extensions site doesn't become like some of the open source awards that are given out based on the number of people that vote for it (that even Joomla! has won some) - the choice to limit votes and reviews is a good one.

Yes, I think there are flaws and shortcomings in the current system, but I can't think of a different way to do this that would produce better results without introducing different flaws.  I think what we have is close to as good as we'll get.

The extensions directory team should be commended for their hard work and excellent results.

Ian

ianmac wrote:
The extensions directory team should be commended for their hard work and excellent results.

Absoultely

I agree with you, too. But the fact is that we need certainly a clearer approach to an extension in order to achieve a sort of quality of products and the question is How... not a simple list, not only by comments or by votes.

As Ian says, there isn't an easy answer to this question and I believe that the existing system is pretty much the best we are going to have.

I am very interested in ensuring that the actions of the JED team are seen to be open and above board. As professional developers ourselves it would be very easy for people to accuse us of bias so we work hard to ensure that this cannot happen. Joomla directly benefits from the huge number of high quality extensions available to it, and it's the JED team's responsibility to do their bit in ensuring that Joomla's reputation isn't damaged by the actions of one or two.

Reviews about extensions are just that, about the extension. Complaints about service or lack of do not constitute reviews therefore will not be approved by the JED team. In the case of Xe Media it was the sheer volume of complaints about service that we rejected that prompted us to investigate the matter, and it was this coupled with the clones unanimously voting up his own extensions and randomly voting down other extensions that forced us to take this action.

Personally I was pushing to name and shame the guilty party but before a decision was made on this 'aser' decided to shoot off his own mouth and brought the subject into the light, forcing us to describe the dirty tricks the developer was attempting to employ (and then was foolish enough to boast about them on his forums). It would have been wiser to say nothing and contact the JED team directly, but that's history now.

There are a lot of hard working, honest developers who don't deserve to have this kind on JED voting down their extensions solely so that their own software can benefit from higher votes. The Xe Media developer isn't the only developer subject to these measures, there are others who have been suspended for inappropriate behaviour and we are working with them to ensure that their behaviour isn't repeated.

So, in short, if you're a developer and tempted to register several different users, vote down other developer's software and vote up your own be warned. You will get found out, you will be banned from JED. End of story.

Vince what you say is exactly the correct procedure etc.

My only concern is "if" this sort of shoddy behaviour should be brought to the wider attention of joomla uses. Personaly I believe it should and I apprecite the potential issues that may arise.

However as you state it is important for the integrity of JED and the JED team that they are seen to be open and honest (which if course they are) and for my 2c I do think that there should be a way of notifying the community of "removed extensions" and the "reason"

I perfectly understand your post as You do the best possible for Joomla. I have no ideas for improving that method, my only problem is how users can understand from  a good Joomla product site from a "not-so-good" site... In this case we have no solution, They have no space in our j.org but they can use joomla for doing their business and nobody can advise about problems. Maybe a sort of Black List isn't a good idea but I think that you can show in an extension directory, their "banned" link with comments about why they aren't there... So Joomla can warn they users, then if a user likes to go on... well it is at his own risk!