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Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:49 pm
by MrRoyce
I'm sure this has been discussed before, and if there is an existing thread or FAQ, please post a link.
My position is this. If the Community allows companies to post commercial extensions on the site and has a review system for these extensions then it stands to reason that buyers should be able to post their good, bad, or indifferent reviews of these products or companies. At times, yes, this will become a commercial dispute, but since the site lists commercial products and provides for a review, how can it reasonably be restricted to "positive" reviews. That type of censorship is misleading at best and counterproductive to the aims of the Community at large.
IMHO, that is what is great about a Community such as ours. We help each other to reach our goals.
If someone purchases a product and doesn't receive the product, gets no or insufficient support for the product, or the product doesn't produce the stated requirements, then its a great service to others to know about this.
The ability for vendors to respond provides a feedback loop that can at least show if the vendor is actively involved and attempting to address the issues raised.
If the Forum wants no commercial disputes, the answer is simple, don't list commercial products. If commercial products are listed then others should see what kinds of technical, business, or personal issues can arise from using those products.
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:56 pm
by Vimes
Lots of products, both free and commercial have both good and bad reviews on JED, so I'm not sure where your comment is coming from. We will not allow commercial disputes because it is fraught with legal implications. If you want to grumble about something, do it on your own server, we can't allow it to be done here (even when we'd like to)
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:17 pm
by MrRoyce
I guess its the moderators judgment if a post is of a commercial dispute nature and that is where the confusion lies. Different moderators my have differing opinions on different days.
If someone doesn't think they got their monies worth, then usually they are not allowed to post the reasons why they think so. For example, if someone pays for an extension and doesn't receive it, they are of course going to be upset and write a bad review pointing that out. Would that be considered a commercial dispute? If this is happening to a lot of users, wouldn't the community be better served by knowing that?
I admit its a grey area and potentially liable, but why open your/our selves up to it? Why not just ban commercial products? By allowing vendors to post commercial products you/we are implying endorsement no matter what the FAQ's say. This is especially true because this site reviews the products before they are listed. A vendor can't just stick their product on the extension site, can they?
I know, I know, the answer always is "start your own site" for that type of thing, but to me thats a lazy answer.
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:29 pm
by Vimes
I have often wanted to alert people to comments that we've received in JED about possible problems, but it's not something that we're allowed to do. If they didn't get the download then they can't review it anyway so that's that out of the door, however see this post:
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg743570
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:35 pm
by MrRoyce
Ok, now I'm getting somewhere, who set up these rules? Is it open for discussion? Can changes to rules be proposed?
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:44 pm
by Tonie
The rules have been set up by me and the JED team. Suggestions are always welcome, though I won't guarantee that we will change anything.
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:02 pm
by MrRoyce
Tonie wrote:The rules have been set up by me and the JED team. Suggestions are always welcome, though I won't guarantee that we will change anything.
Fair enough, and thank you Vimes for the link to the other post. I knew this had to have come up before.
One more vote for brian, et al on this issue. Obviously
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:45 am
by windowsxp550
MrRoyce wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed before, and if there is an existing thread or FAQ, please post a link.
My position is this. If the Community allows companies to post commercial extensions on the site and has a review system for these extensions then it stands to reason that buyers should be able to post their good, bad, or indifferent reviews of these products or companies. At times, yes, this will become a commercial dispute, but since the site lists commercial products and provides for a review, how can it reasonably be restricted to "positive" reviews. That type of censorship is misleading at best and counterproductive to the aims of the Community at large.
IMHO, that is what is great about a Community such as ours. We help each other to reach our goals.
If someone purchases a product and doesn't receive the product, gets no or insufficient support for the product, or the product doesn't produce the stated requirements, then its a great service to others to know about this.
...
I completely agree with you.
I have posted a few reviews, one recently, and it has become apparent to me that there is definitely censorship going on. Only on specific extensions though. I am sure that what is behind this is the almighty dollar. I mean if I paid you some $$$$, would you allow others to speak badly about my product on your website. Of course not.
Unfortunate as it may be, it happens. This sort of behavior causes the information contained in the Extension reviews to be manipulated and therefore skewed. The victims of this are us, the users.
I hope someday this will change, but as the saying goes, wish in one hand and sh#% in the other and see which one fills up first
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:15 pm
by PhilTaylor-Prazgod
Unfortunate as it may be, it happens. This sort of behavior causes the information contained in the Extension reviews to be manipulated and therefore skewed. The victims of this are us, the users.
For an example see:
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,171406.0.html
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:39 pm
by Vimes
windowsxp550 wrote:it has become apparent to me that there is definitely censorship going on. Only on specific extensions though. I am sure that what is behind this is the almighty dollar. I mean if I paid you some $$$$, would you allow others to speak badly about my product on your website. Of course not.
Are you suggesting that the reviewers are taking back-handers to ensure that only glowing reviews are making their way onto the review section of some extensions?
If so, please be so kind to say so openly, providing any evidence that you have to back your claims up.
If not, then please keep your erroneous opinions to yourself.
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:46 pm
by PhilTaylor-Prazgod
Vimes wrote:windowsxp550 wrote:it has become apparent to me that there is definitely censorship going on. Only on specific extensions though. I am sure that what is behind this is the almighty dollar. I mean if I paid you some $$$$, would you allow others to speak badly about my product on your website. Of course not.
Are you suggesting that the reviewers are taking back-handers to ensure that only glowing reviews are making their way onto the review section of some extensions?
If so, please be so kind to say so openly, providing any evidence that you have to back your claims up.
If not, then please keep your erroneous opinions to yourself.
I know that was directed at "windowsxp" and not myself, however I want to say I'm not suggesting or implying anything bad on the part of the JED Editors - I am just pointing out the facts, with evidence as far as I can see it in my own thread quoted above
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:48 pm
by Vimes
You're right, it wasn't directed at you and you've never suggested such rubbish.
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:59 pm
by brian
MrRoyce wrote:One more vote for brian, et al on this issue. Obviously
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:06 pm
by MrRoyce
That was in reference to your position in this thread:
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,153365.msg743570.html#msg743570Hopefully we can convince the decision makers to reevaluate this process.
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:12 pm
by brian
Ahh
Re: Yet another post on reviewing commercial extensions
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:48 pm
by JoomlaCoach
Hmm interesting thread, poor Brian!