The Commercial Gift of Death to Joomla?

[Buster]

Now that "whoever" has seen fit to allow commercial advertising on an open source forum can I please ask that pop-ups be allowed?  I would also like to put a balloon caption behind all of the smileys that opens on mouse-over.

At the interval, I would like a flash movie of cheerleaders roaming across the screen all carrying the motto of my company.  Courtesy of Haptek, I have an animated head in my likeness that I would like to accompany all postings, which reflects movement and talks to you with my company message.

Seriously - I have nothing personal against the advertiser as I think they produce excellent products but the principle behind targeted advertising on an open source forum should be as alien to the ethics of its members as declaring that there was now going to be a charge for downloading Joomla!

I challenge the moderators to let this ride on this "general questions" section as it is a subject that should be seen and discussed!  While I understand the need to generate  revenue for certain costs involved, it should be on the periphery of the forum where visitation is a choice not "up close and personal".

Please lets see where this one takes us? I hope the floor is open!

Buster

Edit: I have just seen the disaster relief "Public Service" advertisement and my comments are in no way aimed at belittling the great efforts put in by the agencies.  I applaud those who help and those who advertise for help.  That said, the inner workings of a forum is still not the place!

[brian]

Well said

[nathandiehl]

Buster,
in regards to asking this to remain in the General Questions forum, please allow me to reference the forum rules, available here: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... tml#msg540

Post your comment/question to the most appropriate place. Any posts deemed to be in the wrong forum will be moved.

leaving this thread here is a violation of the forum rules. It belongs in the Official Sites Feedback forum, where I am moving it now. Please notice that it says 'will be moved' and not 'may be moved'.
(BRW, if you would have looked, you would have found there are already was a thread: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,49790.0.html) i considered merging, but for the sake of being a nice guy, i'll leave this its own post.

Thanks for your concern.

[brian]

Except if you had merged it with the other thread then it would have been closed but perhaps you hadnt noticed that

[MMMedia]

Is there really anything new to add to what has already been said? 

Some hate them, some don't mind them, some support the idea, some could care less.  Some - it interferes with the layout on their screen, some it doesn't.  Some people aren't even seeing them, some don't wish to see them, some just turn a blind eye.

Some are working on ways to make some of the problems with look and feel and layout better, some are just going round and round in circles flogging some mantra of complaint over the same bunch of stuff.

Is there anything else to add?

[brian]

Is there anything else to add?

There might be and people should have the right to express that view

[Andrew998]

You mean some people don't like the new Phil Taylor forums? Surely not!

[MMMedia]

You mean some people don't like the new Phil Taylor forums? Surely not!

Life is funny sometimes isn't it?

There might be and people should have the right to express that view

Yes they do.  Everyone also has to be mindful of specific rules that have to be followed in some situations.

[AmyStephen]

We gotta donate dough!  Everyone one of us!!!

That just has not happened to the level necessary to fund our project. At some point, accountants get involved and debits are compared to credits. Sad, but, true.

As an example, I understand (?) Jinx is not going to Boston -- after all of his work. Why? No money. That just ain't right.

We need a topic thread "How do we raise money?" "Joomla Garage Sales" "Rent My Forehead Space for Joomla" idk...

Also - I encourage people to carry the link to the donation page in your signature. I think many people do not understand that NEARLY EVERYONE can give SOMETHING. And, it adds up.

[Buster]

Like Brian said, the other post had 820+ views and 61 replies and then it was closed!  I thinks its a little naive to think that is or should be the end of it, it's a powerful subject and dismissing out of hand does not earn resepct.

There is no such thing as "specific rules that have to be followed in some situations".  Specific rules have to be followed in ALL situations and I aplogise for my perceived infringement but I think AmyStephen started a valid and pertinent discussion.

I am afraid I didn't see Amy's post before writing and like Nathan states "please do a search", I apologise for not doing that, the shock of commercialism got the better of me.

I like many others on this forum are professional businessmen who would salivate at having a product like Joomla to sell/market and by that I mean owning the copyrighted products!  If that were to happen then it really would be the death of Joomla and a mortal blow to open source in general - the great thing is that no-one owns it and long may that continue.

My suggestion to make money would be to charge for Joomla reselling but on a voluntary license basis.  Before knuckles are cracked and broken typing death threats, let me explain! I will use myself as an example.

I take the Joomla core product, free templates, mods, comps, bots etc. maybe purchase a few great templates from JoomlArt or Jamboworks etc. and then make a nice little fee out of little more than facilitating a "joining up of the dots".  

What if I was "asked" to donate $5 or $10 for every 50 or 100 sites I set up using Joomla (the number is arbitrary)?  For most of us smaller hosters/developers etc. this would amount to $10 at the most and if we couldn't afford to "voluntarily" donate the money then we are doing something wrong.  

For those who use Joomla for personal sites then the product remains free, I am only talking about those of us that make money from the resale.

I don't know how many Joomla users there are but total up the professional resellers and I bet there is a lot more money than Google ads will give you in a lifetime!

I would have thought that those who decided to go for this type of advertising may have considered there are hundreds of professionals on this forum who could have provided many ideas some better, some worse on how to generate commercial revenue and it seems a great waste of a collective talent.

Buster

[Andrew998]

Good points Amy and Buster. I think the key is donations but, as Buster says, on a volunttary basis with guidance given. Some will give, some won't but I suspect the money will be a lot more than Goolge Ads (which don't really bother me that much). Certainly the ads won't generate much revenue with the current monopoly advertiser!

[brian]

There are other options to google adverts that are not as intrusive

[miki89]

I think the advertisement are OK if there is no money... Joomla is a big project and it need a lot of money to continue and grow. The ads are too visible, and they disturb users reading the posts, but it's not much important...  however, from yesterday I continue to see the same ads, "Phyl Taylor Components". If a user don't know that it is a Google Advertisement, he can believe that the "Phyl Tailor Components" are officially supported by joomla.org or similar, and it's not right. is not possible to make the ads change? I believe is more correct for everyone
thanks and excuse me for possible errors in the post
Michele

[AmyStephen]

Hey -

Did you also see AmyStephen's OTHER posts on that thread after the community convinced her that she was really silly and wrong to care about these ads and she admitted her mistake?
< http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg267544>

And marked the thread (her thread) complete ALL BY HERSELF?
< http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg268715 >

Watch out for that chick. Sometimes she is really wrong! < like about the ads - big thing? - think not. >

She can be a true goof-ball and sometimes wishes she had just kept her mouth s*h*u*t. < rather, fingers from moving. >

Joomla needs money, guys. Dig deep - give often.

AmyStephen.

[MMMedia]

Specific rules have to be followed in ALL situations

This is incorrect.  And all the taking out of context of things isn't going to help the situation, so please stay on mark.  It makes absolutely no sense to say ALL situations, because I surely don't take into consideration the rules regarding my homeowner's association when it comes to these boards, because they aren't relevant.  You knew exactly what I was referring to. 

I thinks its a little naive to think that is or should be the end of it, it's a powerful subject and dismissing out of hand does not earn resepct.

I fail to see how it was dismissed out of hand, and I think that is an unfair assessment of the situation.  It was closed due to constraints regarding the rules of the adverts.  That was explained. 

Right now the adverts are a solution to the situation, it may change in the future.  This is the good thing about communities.  Things can change rather quickly based on suggestions and ideas presented by everyone. 

I like your suggestion regarding professionals donating a percentage of the proceeds they make, but how would it be made fair?  Don't you think it should be a fair thing across the board, or should the concious minded few take on the burden of those who could care less?  Who would be in charge of overseeing it?  When things are voluntary, you can't say that someone is wrong, because then it isn't voluntary.  It just doesn't work that way.

Certainly the ads won't generate much revenue with the current monopoly advertiser!

It has been noted that there is an issue with the content of the adverts.  It is being addressed.

I would have thought that those who decided to go for this type of advertising may have considered there are hundreds of professionals on this forum who could have provided many ideas some better, some worse on how to generate commercial revenue and it seems a great waste of a collective talent.

There are other options to google adverts that are not as intrusive

Why don't you throw a couple of those options into this thread so they can be discussed?  It would put this whole thread into the positive.
Perhaps that is the better track for this thread.  Throw in your constructive ideas on what else can be done. 

[PhilTaylor-Prazgod]

Certainly the ads won't generate much revenue with the current monopoly advertiser!

Not true.  According to my statistics there have been 36,000 views and over 6000 clicks - 6000 clicks that Joomla will get paid for, and the advertiser will pay for. Thats just in one morning!

[AmyStephen]

It was PRIMARILY closed because it was MY THREAD and I MARKED IT SOLVED. 

There are people on this thread who REFUSE to try to resolve this peacefully WHEN REPEATEDLY ASKED and now are intentionally ignoring facts that THEY KNOW ARE TRUE.

Why? Are we just trying to stir things up? Why? Where's the prize?

Someone help me understand.

+++++++++++++

Buster - I had the same initial "what the heck" response. But we need money. I, personally, cannot fund what Google Ads can provide so, I said to myself, how big is this. Then, after the redness in my face from embarressment for saying anything left, I apologized and marked my thread as complete. Amy

[AmyStephen]

Certainly the ads won't generate much revenue with the current monopoly advertiser!

Not true.  According to my statistics there have been 36,000 views and over 6000 clicks - 6000 clicks that Joomla will get paid for, and the advertiser will pay for. Thats just in one morning!

Thanks, Phil. You ROCK.

[Andrew998]

Certainly the ads won't generate much revenue with the current monopoly advertiser!

Not true.  According to my statistics there have been 36,000 views and over 6000 clicks - 6000 clicks that Joomla will get paid for, and the advertiser will pay for. Thats just in one morning!

I can understand that but it won't continue if you only ever see the same advert!

Nevertheless, that is quite spectacular and I wish I could generate that many clicks. Well done, I think that answers the question on whether you should do it.

[PhilTaylor-Prazgod]

No one has though how much it costs the advertiser to advertise with such success. 

I can assure you that it will not continue for long.  I am using my whole months google budget on one days advertising.  Joomla will make money from it I am sure. 

And to set the record straight before people ask - I have had only 2 sales today so the advertising, although it is being clicked, is not generating income for me.

[AmyStephen]

I am using my whole months google budget on one days advertising. Joomla will make money from it I am sure. 

Much appreciated. Maybe we can get Jinx to Boston.

[brian]

I am using my whole months google budget on one days advertising.  Joomla will make money from it I am sure. 

The more important question is "Is the ammount of money worth it?" when there are less obtrusive alternatives

[PhilTaylor-Prazgod]

probably not - but it gives the complainers in this forum something else to talk about rather than bitching at the core team.

This is fun :-)

[MMMedia]

I am using my whole months google budget on one days advertising.  Joomla will make money from it I am sure. 

The more important question is "Is the ammount of money worth it?" when there are less obtrusive alternatives

What are some of those alternatives?  And when are we going to get Joomla Stuff?  I want a tshirt, sweatshirt.. something  coffe mug would do...

[AmyStephen]

Me, too! Joomla Kitchen Curtains, too!

[brian]

What are some of those alternatives?  And when are we going to get Joomla Stuff?  I want a tshirt, sweatshirt.. something  coffe mug would do...

Sadly until I am told that I can give that information I will reserve comment, much against my will

[miki89]

I think the ads should be in the bottom of the page, like a "last post"...  the users who come here are not interested in the ads...  if the ad is at the bottom of the page, the user read the post, and then, when he has read and he asks "where I can go now?", he sees the ads and he follows it...  I can't explain it very well because I don't speak English very well, but the ads in the bottom are more "logical" 

[AmyStephen]

No problem, we are patient people. I will just avoid replacing any t-shirts for awhile in anticipation of the joomla stock coming available soon. So, don't be sad. Be happy!

[eddyyanto]

I can't explain it very well because I don't speak English very well, but the ads in the bottom are more "logical"

logical?
Logical in the perspective of 'forum users' but not google adsense subscriber.
And putting the ads below will surely got much less traffic.

[AmyStephen]

I can't explain it very well because I don't speak English very well, but the ads in the bottom are more "logical" 

Your English is excellent, Michele.