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I am new to both Joomla and Dreamweaver... helping out by developing a prototype site for my church

I have some solid understanding of XHTML and CSS 2.0 standards, played around quite a bit but lack a lot of hands on experience.

Here is my question:

What experience do folks have with the the pros and cons for each approach or combining the use of these tools?

-- bob

There is a Dreamweaver ext for Joomla.  I've never used it but it exists.
http://developer.joomla.org/sf/frs/do/l ... plate_exte

I taught a few designers about Joomla and they had a real difficult time understanding why they couldn't "see" the page as they were designing it in Dreamweaver.  I basically had to recode everything they did and this didn't help our relationship.  My suggestions would be to create only the mockup in Dreamweaver.

tcp

What do you mean didnt see? I use Dreamweaver all the time and I can see everything perfectly when I am designing my template.

Sorry, I was a little unclear.  I mean, when one uses dreamweaver to design a template, you use the PHP code to produce the module positions and main body.  In the design view, the PHP code is not being executed so this space is essentially empty.  Of course you can preview your work in a web browser, but if you are accustomed to using designing static HTML pages in the design view, you could be disappointed.  I find that graphic designers are often disappointed when designing templates if they have never used a software system for making a website ( yes, these people still exist ).

Well, anyways.  Just some thoughts, nothing more.

Toby

Well I guess you could run the whole thing local while designing then, maybe you should take a look at things line this;

http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

or this;

http://jsas.joomlasolutions.com/

I guess the reason you can't see the php generated code is because you don't have the webserver+php running, so if you do that might do the trick.

Hey,

I been designing websites for organizations and businesses in dreamweaver since before dreamweaver 4.0. I have been using Dreamweaver 8 since its release. I have been the web master for multiple organizations (like churches and college organizations) at once as well as being the sole web master for a reputable manufacturing company and the massive site is growing all the time.

I am not bragging at all. I am just telling you I feel qualified to answer your question because I have too much personal experience dealing with organizations. So I am just telling you how I feel about both sides of the situation.

PROS ---

Dreamweaver-
- Extremely powerful web design platform for people that know html, css, and javascript pretty well
- Can create good looking pages relatively quick
- Good for business and professional websites
- Good data management, inter-site links management (avoids broken links)
- Dreamweaver templates feature freaking rocks
- Has a file check out system for multiple-webmaster situations
- With enough effort, it is possible to get a website to look and work exactly how you want
- You can manage work flow for effectively. I mean the abstract concept of how the organization of your content and how you link  it all affects how your visitors use your website (or don't)
- Allows you to keep control of website vulnerabilites to hackers/crackers/script kiddies

Joomla-
- Best for organizations and community type websites
- Tons of help here on the forums
- Completely database driven (keeping data seperate from layout makes for amazing versatility)
- Great for organizations where many people would want to be able to add stuff (publish content) to the website from any comptuer with internet
- Tons of pre-made modules, components, templates that can allow you to customize your website with powerful features most people couldn't do in a dreamweaver site nearly as easily, if not at all.
- Can change the entire layout, look, and feel of the website at the push of a button with premade templates
- Saves massive amounts of web page development time on the part of the web designer
- Great member features! With modules like community builder, people that become members of your site can have personal profiles and tons of personal customizable options
- THE WORK IS NOT ALL ON THE WEB MASTER ANYMORE. Because joomla requires NO knowledge of html for front end users, anyone in the organization can be given permissions to log in and publish content whenever they want. This means that work can be delegated properly. The webmaster no longer has to do the secretary, historian, manager's job to prepare and publish the content because that person log log in and do it themselves.
- You dont have to be at your computer to make website changes. You can log onto your website from any computer with internet and make changes that are relatively imediate.
- Joomla is Free.
- Joomla is Fast. This is important. Organizations don't have money to pay you well enough for your time (usually). That means that because you are the web master, they feel they can jerk you around a little bit. They tend to waste your time. For instance, they can make you chace them down for updates and content but whine that the website is not up to date.
Joomla is just more power and punch for your time.
- With joomla you don't worry as much about the look of the content because a good template will manage that well. Remember, content and layout information are seperate.

CONS----

People are stupid, in general. Expect it and design your websites that way.

Dreamweaver----
- If someone doesnt have at least a basic knowledge and experience with html, they won't be able to make good looking sites with dreamweaver
- You have to be at your computer unless you are around computers that all have dreamweaver installed.
- Dreamweaver and Studio 8 are expensive
- Dreamweaver and flash are time consuming. You spend more time working on the layout of the content than the content itself.

Joomla----
- The initial learning curve can be a little tough, so read http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,47524.0.html, twice.
- Free third party plugins can sometimes be worth what you paid for them
- Researching to find a thrid party component/module to do what you need can take a lot of time and sifting through irrelevent junk. However, this is not necessarily any less time than you would spend on dreamweaver trying to find a tutorial on the net to tell you how to do something you can't figure out.
- New vulnerabilities pop up that can compromize your data and image
- Trying to organize your data in a way that makes sense to you can take some getting used to
- Requires a server with databasing and php and all kinds of stuff which can cost more money to host than a straight html website


This is just the stuff I could come up with off hand. I got kind of tired at the end there. I don't mean to seem cynical, I just wish someone would have explained some of this stuff to me when I started making websites a long time ago. Dealing with organizations is different than dealing with businesses.

rex

Wow, I just got the full scoop on DW vs. J! 

Been on DW for many years, creating hundreds of sites, so making the journey to Joomla, while clearly worthwhile, is a brain-burning paradigm shift. 

I still can't stand how "programmer" communicate in these forums and even in what are to be "101" level trainings, as the terminology and such is for people accustomed to both coding and Joomla. I can pick it up, but trying to do my "real job" while learning/implementing this is a challenge.  First time on the OS side too, so it's catch as catch can when it comes to common terms and understandings. 

Makes a 42 year old feel like a dinosaur, gotta tell ya.


Thanks for the great input on this forum. -John

gmtalliance wrote:Makes a 42 year old feel like a dinosaur, gotta tell ya.

I remember 42 ... I had just turned an old desktop machine into something called a "web server" and had gotten Internet connectivity with a 28.8 kbps modem on a telephone line that I "nailed up" (kept off-hook) all the time. The ISP gave me a whole Class C because he didn't know how to subnet ...

Like all things computing, it just takes a while to understand the lingo ...  ...

Best of luck.

\dmc

This is truly very cool. Love the pain of my brain creating new hard-drive space.  Anyways, I had NO idea how many components were available to Joomla, and how many good people were working on this project. Sorry to see one of the founders move on, but hell, I know the problem--time management, $, etc.

Trying to think of a reason to keep DW down the road...Jooomla in for the long-haul ya think?

I know this topic is a fair age now but I just want to thank Rex if he is still a member here for his superb post above.  Has saved me many years finding out for myself.

Thanks Rex!!

gmtalliance wrote:
Makes a 42 year old feel like a dinosaur, gotta tell ya.

He John, even an old 65er was able to move across from DW/ASP etc. to Joomla. Even though I had a think or 2 before I could grasp the single webpage bit.

pieter

gmtalliance wrote:
Trying to think of a reason to keep DW down the road...Jooomla in for the long-haul ya think?

I am hanging on to DW, although once your template is setup, you would not need DW anymore. I use DW to look in the Joomla code if I get funnies during development. It is so much neater than using Notepad or any other obscure text editor.
Also to have a backup at home of the piblished site.

pieter

Hey Peiter,

So you feel they can happily co-exsist?

yes.