Joomla 1.5 Extensions Compatibility: Why all these frustrations?

[Dreadnought]

Hello,

it is a pity to see that many Extensions claim to be compatible with Joomla 1.5, but actually are not. Only to give you two examples:

The claim:
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/option,com_mtree/task,viewlink/link_id,245/Itemid,35/
The facts:
http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/performs/tracker/?action=TrackerItemEdit&tracker_item_id=6439

Claim & Facts:
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,228754.0.html

Why are users tricked into thinking that everything is as easy as with 1.0.x, but then leave them alone with endless searches in bug trackers and forums?

I think that there should be a more concise an secure system of granting "Compatibility" status on http://extensions.joomla.org - it should be monitored by Joomla (core) team members, the status should be granted "officially" and the compatibility icons should be visible already in the overview lists (not only when I click on an item in the results lists to view details).

I do not know how the "compatibility icons" systems works, but the way it works right now definitely appears to be far from being optimal.

Best regards,

D*

[Tonie]

The tagging will change soon (introducing tags for 1.5 native and 1.5 legacy), this will also give the ability to search for 1.5 extensions. The information in extensions is the responsibility from the extension developers themselves. This will stay like this. You did notice that there are more than 2000 extensions on the Extensions Directory? There's no way that we will ever have the resources to test those number against any version of joomla.

[Dreadnought]

Hi Tonie,

and thanks for the reply - it is good to see that the tagging system will get an update soon!

You did notice that there are more than 2000 extensions on the Extensions Directory? There's no way that we will ever have the resources to test those number against any version of joomla.

Of course I am aware of this problem. However, there are possible solutions to this: I'd draw an analogy to the Linux software package system, where you have different levels of software Q&T, stability and compatibility, like the "main", "universe" or "multiverse" package sources. I could imagine a similar system also for Joomla - i.e., that some selected Extensions which provide core functionalities (like WYSIWYG editors, extended forms, etc.) and which have reached a certain level of popularity and/or distribution are monitored more closely by the Community and get granted an "official" Compatibility status (at least for some stable versions).

It surely is not easy to implement such a system, but I think that it would help many users to "separate the wheat from the chaff", and furthermore, in my view, it would foster competition amongst the Extensions suppliers and raise Extensions quality in general.

Only to bring forward some new ideas...

Regards,

D*

[AmyStephen]

Dreadnought -

There are solutions to each challenge our community faces and those challenges are met as *we* step up and meet them. Please consider actioning your good ideas with your time.

Please volunteer and help make Joomla! great!

Amy

[Dreadnought]

Amy -

believe me, I'm already dedicating much of my time to testing Joomla! 1.5 and sending bug reports and proposals to the Forum and Extensions suppliers. Furthermore, I am member of a Linux portal where I am also a Wiki author. I really would like to play a stronger part in Joomla! development and improvement (and in the Open Source Community in general), but at the moment I just do not know where to take the additional time from

Besides, I have no clue of how and where become a "volunteer", as you call it, and which duties, obligations or requirements are related to this...

D*

[AmyStephen]

There are many ways to volunteer that do not require any organized plan. If there is something we believe should be accomplished, nothing is stopping us from contributing in that area. All you have to do is go for it!

In this case, testing extensions and determining whether or not they function properly with v 1.5 is something correctly identified as work that would be helpful, if done. So, I say "go for it!" Select 50 or 100 important extensions and start testing them, publishing your results. That is helpful. That is volunteering. That is making a positive difference!

There are many things that must be done. In a community, it's our responsibility to get the work done. There are no employees of Joomla!. *We* are Joomla! and it's up to each of us, independently, to contribute to making it better.

We can do that simply by allowing those things that we notice must be fixed motivate us into action.

Amy

[Dreadnought]

Select 50 or 100 important extensions and start testing them, publishing your results.

Do you really think that, said what I said about time restrictions, this is a task that I could accomplish myself - alone?

This is why I am posting it here, hoping that there are others in the Community who are willing to set up or join such a project.

And even if i could do that all alone - there would still be missing a kind of general, "official" mechanism that would assign or tag a certain compatibility status to each tested Extension...

So please forgive me if I cannot contribute more right now, but if I find the time I will think of a system that would allow better Extension evaluation and will be glad to post my results here.

Regards,

D*

[AmyStephen]

You don't have to contribute now, or in the future. We are free to come and take Joomla! without any obligation. Thank you for sharing your idea, though! Maybe someone else will have a similar interest and invest the time and energies needed to make this happen! We can only hope. 

Have fun with Joomla!,
Amy

[greenjelly]

I have worked on postNuke source code, web site, and community development/support, about 4 years ago, when it was the leader of the pact.

The experience has shown me that Quality Assurance is not something that Joomla can spend time on doing.  If you have problems with a module, make a comment about the problems in the module section.  This is what it is for...

Your also using a Release Canadate and I am surprised at how stable it is for being labeled as such.  These developers are supporting 1.5, and then can have something change on them in the next nightly build.  Joomla is not the Quality Control center for all things Joomla.

Second you make a point of the Linux community.  Let me say with definitive experience that the Linux kernel itself is usually in poor shape when it is released, and most of the bugs are worked out by the distribution teams.  In addition it is the distributions that verify everything is working.  Joomla is not a distribution it is an application.  What you can do is create a Joomla distribution and then ensure that everything works... Just plug play and go.  Pre-configure Joomla, and then release it for a specific purpose.  This activity should be promoted by the Joomla staff, but from experience I have found very not a single person willing to creating and maintaining a CMS distribution.  It is just recently that I had seen postNuke have a distribution of there CMS.

[joomborg]

i've the same issue with 1.5

too many addons either dont work as supposed or have random issues or just dont work at all.


therefore i'm stuck with 1.0.xx
but let me tell you i'm not happy of the situation,
and joomla 1.5 is not promising very well judging
by the commercial coders' "revolt" against the strict GPL turnaround
imposed in joomla 1.5

i'll stick with 1.0.xx as it still gets the job done, but i'm already
focusing on other alternatives, especially Drupal.

it's simply ridicolous that now with 1.5 RC3 the only thing
i really needed for a project of mine (XMLRPC) is broken !

(was working fine in RC2, and yes, it doesnt work even
in debug mode, i've read those tips already).

as a long time user, i'm getting more and more disappointed,
core devs seems to only care about 1.5, the final 1.5 is still
not at the horizon and lots of stuff doesnt work, we users
are stuck with 1.0xx knewing pretty well there's no roadmap
for maintaining the 1.0xx trunk.

i mean, no offence, but joomla 1.0xx is dead and 1.5 is
in perpetual RC stage.

actually, most of the other CMS can do anything a barebone
install of Joomla 1.5 does and much more.

the real power or joomla are the addons, not the core.
choosing to break most of the compatibility with the 1000s
of addons and template for 1.0.xx has been a veeeeery bad move.

i mean, go in any web developing forum and unlike 5-6 months ago now
Drupal is all the rage,  not to mention it does many things you simply
can't do with joomla (well, and viceversa, let's be honest).

my 2 cents,
frustrated joomla user.

[joomborg]

Dreadnought -

There are solutions to each challenge our community faces and those challenges are met as *we* step up and meet them. Please consider actioning your good ideas with your time.

Please volunteer and help make Joomla! great!

sorry but i completely disagree :

1) not all of us have time to volunteer

2) not all of us believe in open source as you do, we just use the best tools
in the market to get out jobs done : if joomla fullfills my needs and in plus
is GPL, well i can't complain, but this doesn't means i must religiously
become a GPL supporter, i'm 100% for commercial software actually and always will.

3) as said in my previous post, this typical "don't whine, volunteer !" GPL attitude
is really irritating me and i suppose many others :

we need a solution for clear specific needs (say : compatibility with 1.0xx), and you tell us
to code it ourselves.

besides, what about people who isn't php-savvy like us ?

i need xmlrpc and all i get is Blogg-X for 1.0xx or people saying enable debug mode
or hack code files, thanks, tried them all, still not working as it should.

but xmlrpc apart, the extensions issue is the real pain in the ass.
not only i need exactly those specific extensions, but i hacked
most of them in their php and template files : even if they now
publish a 1.5 version i'll have to do it all again.

said this, if i still stick with joomla at all, is only because i spent long time on it
and apart the time==money equation, it would be a waste of time
and resource to jump straight on Drupal or whatever else.

[AmyStephen]

besides, what about people who isn't php-savvy like us ?

I am completely confused. How do you plan to build that backend component if you have no PHP skills? Why are you are complaining about the GPL being bad for the world because it's offered freely, then asking for more free stuff? Your posts are all confusing to me.

There are many ways to contribute, most of which do not involve code. Most people (80 - 90%?) do not contribute back to the project, and that is okay, too. But, if you choose not to contribute, try not to become a problem to the project you benefit from.

Amy

[joomborg]

besides, what about people who isn't php-savvy like us ?

I am completely confused. How do you plan to build that backend component if you have no PHP skills? Why are you are complaining about the GPL being bad for the world because it's offered freely, then asking for more free stuff? Your posts are all confusing to me.

There are many ways to contribute, most of which do not involve code. Most people (80 - 90%?) do not contribute back to the project, and that is okay, too. But, if you choose not to contribute, try not to become a problem to the project you benefit from.

Amy

sorry for my grammar.
i meant "what about people who unlike us (i AM php skilled) does not code in php" ?

sorry to sound unfriendly in my previous post.
i belong to the 80-90% you mentioned.

didn't want to be polemic, just to contribute with
my personal opinion.

my best wishes for those who contribute actively
to joomla.

[LorenzoG]

Feel that we need to get this thread on the right track again..

Dreadnought:
We are currently testing a JED update and we will address the concerns you have in your first post.

[greenjelly]

PostNukes failure to re-write and aggressively progress is what caused the decrease in its functionality.  The truth is people need to step up to the plate and contribute as they had in 1.X!

I have searched the CMS market, and right now very few offer the features AND community Joomla offers.  i will have to sit down and code for my site, I will use 1.5!  The only complaint I have has been MY difficulty to get the source code version control software working, but that is something I am working on in another thread.  I am also helping out in documentation for other plug-ins that support 1.5, yet dont have 1.5 based documentation.  Since I am new to this project, this is the best way I can help out.  I got a perspective of beign a complete NOOBIE and as I can apply MY view on the projects to make documentation for people like ME... complete NOOBIES!

Step upto the plate.  The API is just one aspect of a plugin.  With a bit of work you can change these modules over to the NEW API!  its not that hard, you just got to know the new API!

Anyways, I would love a better solution to Joomla, and for certain applications their are better solutions.  If people step up they can make Joomla into more then what it is now.

Thank god for 1.5, and the Developers Strong stance to step up and make MAJOR changes rather then hug and hold onto old poorly though out code that will continue to limit or restrict development in the future.

Just MY opinion, but Im having fun here... Learning and contributing.  I prefer to work on the Add-ons over the actual base code itself.  I leave that up to people who already have a firm understanding of the code!

[joomborg]

PHPnuke, PostNuke, Xoops, and all the other *Nuke flavours weren't that bad years ago :
they simply got the job done.

problem is, due to their archaic architecture and design, they were pretty limited,
and full of bugs and severe security issues.

yet, don't think for a nanosecond that joomla is so much better.

joomla 1.5 is technically a great leap forward, but joomla 1.xx
is still a big mess.

and don't think drupal, typo3, wordpress, are much better.
wordpress looks cleaner, yes, but for the simple reason
it's so much more one-task oriented (blogs).

Mod-X is probably one of the best from a technical viewpoint,
but what about actually doing work with it ?
first of all it's full of bugs, secondly their community is tiny,
third you've 1/10th of the addons available for joomla or drupal.

if you're a newbie, i see nothing better than joomla.
easy of use and an intuitive backend are the main reasons for
its success.

APIs : up to you.

any cms you choose will have it's own APIs, so either you're able
to get the job done using the barebone options in the backend
or you must study APIs and make your own modifications.

CMS market : you'll hardly find a "perfect CMS" as no offence
but they all suck in one way or another, even the commercial
ones, wait, i mean especially the commercial ones.

plugins & compatibility : again, no offence towards the joomla devs
but i guess they're not minimally interested in the subject of
backward compatibility, and for many reasons they all want people
to just move to 1.5 and "forget about the past" let's say.

problem is, what do you with a 1.5 rc3 if 70% of the addons you
need don't work ?

and top of it, not even all the bundled features work, see XMLRPC
for instance, which i badly need for various reasons.

actually, joomla 1.5 can give you a nice blog and few other simple
things, it's not even comparable with what you can do with wordpress...

[Wendy]

Dreadnought:
We are currently testing a JED update and we will address the concerns you have in your first post.

as this addresses the initial question, time to lock this one now.