Joomla Extension Section Overhaul

China J · Post by **China J** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:13 pm

Am I the only one annoyed by the unorganized structure in the extension download section?

Here is my pet peeves:

1st pet peeve... If your product is for sale, let us no before we click the link instead of concealing it then wasting 5 minutes of my time for your site to load and get back to where I was in my search here.

2nd pet peeve... If we're gonna support paid mods then Joomla should have a visual in the listing results of mods whether they are free, paid or trial. Its way too many mods here to sort through that crap productively on our own.

3rd pet peeve... For the listings of mods, components or whatever, we should be able to see compatibility clearly so if I'm only looking for 1.5 mods then I don't have to waste my time clicking open a 1.0 file that was listed in the wrong section. i know there is an option in the search function but sometimes I just like to view the whats new or top rated sections quickly.

4th pet peeve... 1.5 Legacy mods??? This should not be entered into the 1.5 group and should remain as 1.0 - all the developer is saying is he can't be bothered to upgrade the mod. Who is going to put there new 1.5 board in legacy mode for one plugin when they are using several others natively? There's no such thing as 1.5 legacy and it's a bunch of crap. If you are going to use legacy mode, you might as well stick with Joomla 1.0.x

5th pet peeve... Why would I care if it's a module, component, plugin & etc? If I like it, I'm going to install it regardless. So I think that info should be limited to it's main application and not a list of all. So tool is a tool. If its main use is a module then thats all that should display and not module, plugin, tool all at the same time. (confuses its real purpose) Should be replaced with version type (1.0 or 1.5), Free Paid or Trial to convey to the consumer its true purpose and application.

Example Modification New Hot
1 vote - Write review
This plugin provides a contact sheet for your site visitors to contact you with questions. it also provides module to search content through category based on user defined ip address.
X - Plugin
X - Free
X - Joomla 1.5

Category: Categories/Sections | GNU GPL | http://www.anywhere.com | Updated 1 day ago Views: 1,119

Sorry to complain and I hope that this can be taken as constructive feedback.

Thanks

Post by **tydust** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:20 pm

4th pet peeve... 1.5 Legacy mods??? This should not be entered into the 1.5 group and should remain as 1.0 - all the developer is saying is he can't be bothered to upgrade the mod. Who is going to put there new 1.5 board in legacy mode for one plugin when they are using several others natively? There's no such thing as 1.5 legacy and it's a bunch of crap. If you are going to use legacy mode, you might as well stick with Joomla 1.0.x

The Directory was created when there was no 1.5. As things became at least compatible with 1.5 in legacy, they were marked that way so people would know it had been tried and was successful.

Why use 1.5 in legacy? Because you want to not have to convert a site later because of one extension. I develop several sites per month. Example: If a client needs WebAmoeba Ticket System (support ticket component GPL freeware for 1.0), I'm not going to give them a 1.0 site just because I don't want the legacy plugin turned on. They will get the new functionality of 1.5, the easier-to-use administration, and when WebAmoeba (or some other support ticket system) comes along for 1.5 it's far easier to just switch out one component than migrate an entire site.

Not only that, but there are some extensions written specifically for 1.5 (Jxtended ezine, ImageBrowser gallery, etc) that certainly can't be used on 1.0.x... you have to go up, not down.

5th pet peeve... Why would I care if it's a module, component, plugin & etc? If I like it, I'm going to install it regardless. So I think that info should be limited to it's main application and not a list of all. So tool is a tool. If its main use is a module then thats all that should display and not module, plugin, tool all at the same time. (confuses its real purpose) Should be replaced with version type (1.0 or 1.5), Free Paid or Trial to convey to the consumer its true purpose and application.

Again, this data was written when there was no 1.5. You had to know if it was a module, plugin, or component so you knew which installer to use. This will still be important for supporting the 2000+ extensions which are still 1.0.x compatible. While functionality should (and will) be added to be more helpful to 1.5 extensions... we must still, at least for now, support the vast array of 1.0.x sites (1 million+ ? I think) and their needs.

China J · Post by **China J** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:47 pm

Well wouldn't it be more feasible to just host a separate area for the 1.5 native mods only? I and a lot of 1.5 native users have no plans to downgrade as you say Especially those that are new to the Joomla it makes it all to bad of a experience to go hunting down things you need when thousand of irrelavent stuff is clustered together.

I suggested a reorganization to separate the the 1.5 native from the 1.0.x and legacy months ago so that a jump start can be initiated before things get worse and a lot of people commented in that thread supporting the idea. Can you imagine the horror of searching through extensions when old ones are upgraded and new additional ones are added in a years time? That would pump the count to over 6000 extensions with no sense of organization.

IMO it should be handled now before it gets any worse. At least separating them is a good start. After that I may not be concerned about whether they are paid or not, but even still that's a minor thing that can be fixed too.

brad · Post by **brad** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:49 pm

Calm down... calm down.

If you take a moment to read threads posted in this section you will notice that an upgrade of JED is imminent. No need to worry, the editors want this reorganization more than you, and are doing their best to get it done ASAP.

China J · Post by **China J** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:19 pm

Sorry for my venting and frustrations. It's just I can't afford to spend a hour minimum each visit to the extensions area as it's counter productive. I'm glad to hear that emanate plans are in order. Could it be possible that you guys can rename this topic and pin it for user feedback on improvements? I'm sure others out there would have some great ideas not thought of currently.

Thanks

brad · Post by **brad** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:25 pm

China J wrote:Sorry for my venting and frustrations. It's just I can't afford to spend a hour minimum each visit to the extensions area as it's counter productive. I'm glad to hear that emanate plans are in order. Could it be possible that you guys can rename this topic and pin it for user feedback on improvements? I'm sure others out there would have some great ideas not thought of currently.

Thanks

No, once it is done, there will be a new thread opened.

China J · Post by **China J** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:39 pm

You are saying that you guys are not taking any suggestions/feedback prior to rebuilding it? If not can you ellaborate a little more as to why and perhaps give us some kind of roadmap of planned features/screenshots?

brad · Post by **brad** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:54 pm

China J wrote:You are saying that you guys are not taking any suggestions/feedback prior to rebuilding it? If not can you ellaborate a little more as to why and perhaps give us some kind of roadmap of planned features/screenshots?

Sure, suggest away. Perhaps choose a better thread title next time. This thread is not a model on how to give constructive feedback. The language used as well as the title give that away.

We're all volunteers, doing our best with the free time we have available. If you would like to help out in one of our Workgroups, please let us know.

Edit:

"Spamming is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to indiscriminately send unsolicited bulk messages. While the most widely recognized form of spam is e-mail spam, the term is applied to similar abuses in other media: instant messaging spam, Usenet newsgroup spam, Web search engine spam, spam in blogs, wiki spam, mobile phone messaging spam, Internet forum spam and junk fax transmissions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(electronic)

Give the editors a break.. they work so very hard on keeping the JED free from spam. You can help if you are talking about proper spam, by using the report option on JED. Don't complain, help out.

Sorry, I am not in a good mood to take flak that we're not doing enough. I never am.

China J · Post by **China J** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:20 pm

Yeah I kinda figured that. That's why I asked if the thread could be renamed appropriately. Don't worry, if you can close this thread I will start a more suitable one with an appropriate title.

Thanks again for your assistance and hard work.

Post by **tydust** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:22 pm

You know one of the things that would really help the Extension Directory and other aspects of Joomla become more rich and organized?

Answer a few support questions.

The JED editors are just Joomla volunteers like everyone else. And we read the forums and answer support questions too. The less time I spend answering questions is more time I have to work on the JED.

You can take the time you'll spend here complaining that the features of the JED are not up to your standards (a free service that most other Open Source projects do NOT have. A certain shopping cart I'm thinking of has a horribly unmoderated mod directory... many mods are long since abandoned or do not work with current versions. Another well-used shopping cart doesn't even have a directory sponsored by the project).... OR you can take that time and give a little back to the project.

Everyone who has used Joomla successfully has an answer to give. Usually it's something simple you have had happen to you before, and the answer just pops out at you... and you can help a user less experienced than yourself. You don't have to be a Joomla expert to answer many of the general questions asked about installation and administration.

China J · Post by **China J** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:25 pm

Nevermind, just realized I could change the title myself. I will do whatever I can to help out as a member and contribute what I can around here. Once again thanks for your assistance.

Post by **pe7er** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:30 pm

China J wrote:5th pet peeve... Why would I care if it's a module, component, plugin & etc? If I like it, I'm going to install it regardless. So I think that info should be limited to it's main application and not a list of all. So tool is a tool. If its main use is a module then thats all that should display and not module, plugin, tool all at the same time. (confuses its real purpose) Should be replaced with version type (1.0 or 1.5), Free Paid or Trial to convey to the consumer its true purpose and application.

I do care if it's a module, component, plugin!
Why?
Because there's a major difference in functionality:

Component: central part of the page: it's mostly positioned in the main part of the site,
and it can have different modus (view, edit, save etc.)
You can use only one component at at time.

Module: (in general) small programmes that run on in side boxes and can only have one state.
E.g. the "Latest News" module shows the titles of the latest articles.
When you click on any, you will trigger the com_content component which displays the article.
You can use multiple modules at a time.

Plugin (aka Mambot): background programmes that can handle a certain support task.
E.g. the WYSIWYG editor that is used in the com_content component when you edit an article.
or the email cloaking mambot that filters the content for email and replaces it by a JavaScript routine
that conceils the email address for spam bot harvesters.

If I am looking for some extension that displays a small calender on the side of the screen,
(e.g. somewhere on the left on the FrontPage) then I know that I should look for some Module to accomplish that.

So I hope that understanding of this difference will make you care about if it's a module, component, plugin
and that the extensions are listed like that in the JED...

China J · Post by **China J** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:18 am

I do understand in that point of view you presented and at the same time I understand the design of the extensions database will not please everyone when it comes to user friendliness. As I mentioned in the quote you quoted me on is my main concern in this aspect would be it's main functionality. If it's main purpose is to be a Component but it has a built in module then it should be listed under Components because it's main functionality is component and that everything else is just a feature really.

It's a mute point anyway cause the search feature only allows you to choose one and not all and with that being said the results should show only that and not other icons to make you go hmmm? And because the advanced search only allows you to choose one the results are poor because you get other items mixed in with it who's main function is not what you were looking for. Where something actually should be 3 pages in returned results yielded 20 pages instead because of the main labels causing conflicting results.

I do on the other hand firmly believe with the 1.5 now final, it should have it's own section to migrate away from old habits. The main thing I would like to see is most certainly a separation of the two products in the extensions section. After that I would like in this newly created division the option to choose only one "main type" for the file being submitted to aid in better search results. After all the file submitter can add in his description if extras are included. And lastly something to clearly indicate whether its free, trial or pay... That way if I'm looking for free extensions thats all I will see clicking on a Free extensions link. Same goes with Paid Add-ons link and etc.

My original post about this was in June of 07. Without member feedback, contributions & suggestions the extensions section won't get any better. For the record, I'm not taking the piss at anyone here at this site... All I'm asking is a little attention to bring that area up to speed with the flagship product J1.5 entry. Justifying the old ways is really indicating a set mind not to move foward.

Post by **MMMedia** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:36 am

There has been tons of input, on the subject. Did you read any of the posts that have come before your latest post? Since yours in 2007?

People have said what they want, a reworking is in the works. There has been a lot of attention on it. Asked and answered repeatedly. Feedback has been given. Perhaps you just haven't been paying attention? Surely you don't expect everything that has been done on the rework to be dropped to meet your demands?

Hopefully the new JED will be up to your standards.

China J · Post by **China J** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:10 am

Eh I sincerely apologize. Again let me say that it's not my intention to piss in anyone's soup nor step on toes. I'm just throwing out suggestions and beit they may have been discussed before which as far as I could be bothered to look was 7-8 pages back in this forum with no appearance of what I perceived to be the subject and again I'm sorry for sounding like the typical new comer trying to rally support, but that was not my intent. Maybe someone should have just posted a link on a really active topic on this subject and I could have joined in that discussion which would have not been looked at in a negative vibe instead of ripping me a new orifice.

Right now all I'm getting is criticism for my thoughts instead of help in the right direction. Look at my post count, I am new which of course explains I am not conditioned to the years of tradition around here especially in the Extensions area, I just found it really frustrating and voiced my opinion which is all it was.

I've apologized enough and expressed thankfulness throughout this thread. So I won't be sugar coating anymore thoughts regarding my opinions. Every member of this community voices their opinions good or bad about whatever and it's just part of the task to holding the positions that the team here does. Brad already explained his reasons which I can relate to, but what about the others, what your excuses? What a great community this is...

Post by **MMMedia** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:35 am

You are not that new if you said you posted on the subject in July of 2007. You just haven't bothered to check what has gone on since. That isn't anyone else's issue but yours. There has been a ton of discussion regarding the JED. Descriptions of what is going to happen have been given. Feedback was given, and taken into consideration. You didn't participate. Now you want to complain about it. It was your own choice to not participate. It was your choice to not look at the thousands of posts that have been posted to this forum since July 2007.

You posted a less than considerate post, with an even less considerate title. Now you want to act offended when the truth of the matter is pointed out to you. Perhaps you need to think more carefully about how you phrase things, and whether it is a good idea to complain, demoralize other's hard work, and demand your needs be met all in the same post.

If you don't intend to "piss in anyone's soup" or "step on anyone's toes" then perhaps you need to actually not intentionally do that. It would go a long way to show that you don't intend to do it, if you actually don't do it.

Edit: Here are some helpful links for you, so you can catch up on what has been discussed already:
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=273804
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=273712
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=263094
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=273294
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=272062
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=264597
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=195246

China J · Post by **China J** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:10 am

Though you may not truly believe but this thread has gone in a very bad direction and bigger man as you may think you are, you could have simply said hey we understand your frustrations and accepted my apology for that in the first post. But as I said you are intent on trying to make me feel like a complete ass for my opinions regardless of anyone having their bad day. The fact that I joined a long time ago has no bearing on my user experience here. I joined then and found it awkward and revisited recently and still find it awkward. It is not to say that I did not want to participate, but unfortunately on a personal level I had a traumatic issue going on in my life that kept me away from pursing anything in my life including wanting to participate here. My daughter was Internationally Kidnapped if you must know. You can read about a incredible update here which was about the time I joined this site and made that post which includes interaction from the USA goverment. http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.p ... pic=236361. Since that period even more exhausting work up till Feb 29th 2008 I got the go ahead from the courts plan for her return. I expect to leave in a month or two to go get her and bring her back home. Anyhoo, my plans was to build a site honoring her then and now that's what I'm back to do is just that especially for others in similar circumstances. So I'm giving back and devoting my spare time for this charitable cause. I've apologized several times now for my initial post... must this continue in this fashion. I rather much get to know people and blend in than to be the black sheep. "It shouldn't matter what I say in the beginning but more so what I say in the end". PeekabooFoundation

Post by **MMMedia** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:25 am

I am sorry you have had a difficult road. It is good you are giving your time to something that means so much to you. Please realize though, that just as you are giving to something that is important to you, that you put your valuable time into, free for others to benefit - how would you feel if someone came in like a bull in a china shop to give you a hard time?

I don't think I am a better man, as I am a woman. I don't think I am better than you. I do think your opinions are valuable. What is at issue is the method and the harshness of the words. You have apologized and thank you.

Please take the time to go through the forum and see what is going on. Check those links above in my last post to see what is in store for the JED. It may stop you from repeating requests for items that are already planned.

Good luck with your site. Volunteering your blood, sweat and tears to any endeavor to help the greater good is an admirable thing to be doing.

China J · Post by **China J** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:44 am

Thank you and I really mean thank you from the bottom of my heart. I knew later after reading my 1st post that my words was not the best choice and I've been whole heartedly trying to make amends for them. I thank you for your understanding and best wishes for me and my family and from this point forward I hope that you and others I will come to know better and establish a long lasting friendship in this community.

Sincerely,

Jay

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