Mambo Open Source Development Team - Letter to the community - Discussion

[keliix06]

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

It is a real shame.  Mambo is a great CMS.  I have written components and modules for it and am currently doing so now.  Where do we go from here?

I think it is time for a new thread.  This one is way too long.

According to Andrew Eddie, the first release will be what would have been the 4.5.3 release. All your development will work with the new code base, not to worry

[rootropy]

Reading this thread, I was struck by the anti-establishment references: mutiny, rebellion, etc. Miro was never running the show, they were just along for the ride. Thus how can we rebel against them? We, the community members, are the lifeblood of this CMS. Without us and the leadership of the development team, the CMS would be nothing more than unused and unloved software code.

You have defined it perfectly.

The foundation's goals are sound: to provide the structure and money to grow the Mambo project. Breaking up the development team and alienating the community through poor communication, abrupt actions, absurd fees, censorship, and the rapacious gathering of power is clearly not the right way to proceed.

Yes, the intention seemed good but the proceedings...it smells so bad that's evident what are the intentions...

However, I can’t see a company with an extra $50k for fees paying out without a guarantee that the changes they want will be implemented. How can we encourage contributions from donors without selling out?

[Hanif]

Whoa !!!  What a  shock to the system...

I'm a strong user of Mambo and recommended the product to several people who in turn developed profitable businesses yet today got a email from Mambolance:

Mambo as we know it is finished.
It will be developed further afcourse!
Mambolance will also continue to exist.
Miro and the Dev team broke up yesterday as most of us know by now.
Please follow all further developments on http://www.opensourcematters.org since http://www.mamboserver.com is not posting the news!
We will keep you informed.

Regards,
Mambolance

Thank you Mambolance for pointing that our, I'm a user of Mambo and rarely do I log on to the forums at mamboserver, got the software it works for me and that's it. I might visit the forums every month or so but not a frequent user.
So it scares me that there must be thousands of users like me in the community who don't know what the jack has gone on. Dudes, I think there needs to be some mention to the direction to what has happened especially on Mamboserver, FRONT PAGE!.

It's a shame the direction that Miro has adopted, $50,000 for a strategic partner, hmm well who's going to cough that up?

One thing that is positive is the development team have stood together and that is certainly heartening.

Guys, I'm just a small time user but if you need my support in the UK to promote the cause please let me know.

I'll stick with u guys and see through these tough days.

Mambo was my blood and air, man loved the product after using the Postnuke variants. Was a fresh build and had me convinced that I was on the right product within 10secs of usage. However, all this game about from a crack team of developers and people who supported the forums through and through.

Master Chief,
Stingray
Michelle Bisson
Rey

and all the other core team, you certainly don't know me. But on those days that when I searched for a little inspiration or how to do something I found that you guys & gals always went out of your way to help people, that means community effort. And I think that is what was core about Mambo, a product that served the community and where the developers knew what was required.

Hold your head high guys...and dont let the miro get you down.

With you 110% all the way! Go Dev Team Go!!!

Yours,

Hanif Rehman

[man_of_mr_e]

While I'm certain the core devs had good reasons for what they have done, I think most everyone else here is over reacting.  Here's why:

Foundations are legal entities, and because of this, you have to have formal methods of voting by the membership.  When you form a foundation, there are no members yet, and as such there is no way to legally vote in the members of the board.  As such, all initial members of a foundation board *MUST* be appointed by whomever forms the foundation.  This is just an initial formation board, though.  Once the foundation is a living entity with real members, then a real vote can take place to either affirm the board, or elect new members based on the memberships decisions.

Given the above, I think everyone that's reacting to the fact that Miro appointed the board are simply ignorant of the way a foundation must be created.  Since the Mambo community is not a legal entity of any sort, there is no legal way to 'vote' on who would be members.  On top of that, such an action would take an inordinate amount of time (community driven processes always do).  If you want to get the job done, someone has to step up and DO it.  That's what Miro did here in my opinion.

I think the fact that things snowballed and got out of hand shows how a formal foundation is NEEDED by the community to handle such things.  Running off to form another non-legal community is just going to set you all up for this problem to happen again.

Also, everyone is complaining about a lack of information and transparency.  That's a valid argument, in my opinion, but what it lacks is patience.  These things don't get done overnight and often you don't know all the details yet.  It takes time to draft the foundation, to get it legally dealt with, etc..  Exposing this to community "approval" would just make it take even longer.

Think of it as the birth of an open source project.  A community doesn't get together and vote on what the project will be.  SOMEONE creates the first version, and gets it out there.  Then the community can shape it to whatever it wants.  I think this is what Miro planned to do, but the massive overreaction by the people afraid of losing their "status" or "control" caused everyone to become defensive and break off communication.

[guilliam]

^^all freelancers and buyer (basically members) of mambolance.com have recieved the mass email sent. pretty well done to inform those fellows of ours that has not been in the "other" forum in while but active in mambolance.

-guilliam

[brian]

Erik you make some valid points but your conclusion is incorrect

I wish that i could tell you more that has gone on behind the scenes but I'm legaly advised that i cannot at this time.

[Woof]

Well isnt this an interesting turn of events.

I loved Mambo and was sure I would use it forever. No more!

The CMS to be named later is my new bread and butter. Kudos to the core dev team for sticking together. It's also nice to see many of the heavy hitters from that other forum over here. Makes us noobs feel lots better.

Keep up the fight!

[man_of_mr_e]

Intersting.  I find it ironic that with all the demands for transparency, even the core dev team has decided to become opaque.

Like i said, I'm sure there were good reasons for what you've done.  And I realize that i'm not privy to everything that's happened.  But honestly, the formation of a foundation is NECESSARY in my mind.  Whether it be Miro initiated or something else.  And that means, as I said, a certain amount of "just doing it" rather than a huge community driven process.

[hyper]

Full support for the core dev people and the rest of the community - nice to see everyone voting with their feet. Even old BC has not wasted any time jumping in with an "I told you so", lol.

Happy to help, have good links in SA, UK and NZ. Spreading the word on as many forums & newsgroups as poss.

The general tone and attitude from everyone on this new forum is inspiring. A reminder to keep it clean though - no doubt there are legal hurdles ahead for the core devs, no need to make it any tougher for them than it needs to be by denigrating Miro et al on this new forum.

Note to devs regarding the Software Freedom Law Center: where possible, it would be helpful to post developments and/or requirements on this new forum (as & when), so that the community can see what is required and can offer whatever assistance we can. As a starter, what about setting up a "war chest" to help with legal fees, hosting and so on? PayPal donation button perhaps? Anyone with experience on managing this sort of thing? Maybe the Software Freedom Law Center can advise on how we can help? I've also emailed to PJ at Groklaw in the interests of advice from the considerable legal experience of the Groklaw community.

Obviously there needs to be a "heads down" period for reflection, consideration, etc before any marketing initiatives (e.g. new name) but it seems that all the right people with the right experience are here already, starting new language, tech, 3PD forums etc. Thought also needs to be given to those intrepid souls who have already published Mambo books - what can be done to assist with name changes in areas like this? (A sidenote for authors: lulu.com looks like an amazing resource for self-publishing!)

Kind regards,
Greg Morley.

[tjay]

Intersting.  I find it ironic that with all the demands for transparency, even the core dev team has decided to become opaque.

Like i said, I'm sure there were good reasons for what you've done.  And I realize that i'm not privy to everything that's happened.  But honestly, the formation of a foundation is NECESSARY in my mind.  Whether it be Miro initiated or something else.  And that means, as I said, a certain amount of "just doing it" rather than a huge community driven process.

If you support the foundation there is a place to do that is there not?
So seems you have to make your choice, and like the rest of us either trust the core team ( I do ) or go with the foundation.
You are not privy and we are not either, lets give them the time they need huh?

[pixelsoul]

well the cms will still rock no matter what the name, only to bad of all the time it will cost to setup the project all over again.

[Jinx]

With the help of all of u, this will happen with the blink of an eye

[toubkal]

Hi everyone,

Just thought that I would like to add my support to the core team.

I was going to wait until I had read all posts over here but I am seriously struggling to keep up with all the posts on the old (mambo archive) forum and those on here.

I knew it was the right place when I saw all the photos (It is quite liberating actually).

So I am signing in for duty. Forgive me (on this occasion) for not reading all posts yet but are we doing M*mbo support from here now? I see a few forum boards for this. If we want more people to come here, then in my opinion, we need to be THE place for support.

[man_of_mr_e]

I guess my point is that the core dev team is now doing the very things they (and others) accused Miro of doing.  Namely, secretly carrying out actions.  Great, you've been advised not to comment, but don't you think Miro was advised about that as well?

How exactly does one put their trust in someone that makes a huge ordeal about a particular set of actions, breaks away (ie takes their toys and goes home) and then acts the exact same way?

Well, ok, not the EXACT same way.  There's no censorship or other things going on, but still.  You get my point.  I dislike hypocricy in all its forms, and I *REALLY* dislike it when we're supposed to put our trust in a hypocritical action.

[stingrey]

As a starter, what about setting up a "war chest" to help with legal fees, hosting and so on? PayPal donation button perhaps? Anyone with experience on managing this sort of thing? Maybe the Software Freedom Law Center can advise on how we can help? I've also emailed to PJ at Groklaw in the interests of advice from the considerable legal experience of the Groklaw community.

Thank you for the suggestion.
The guys at SFLC have offered their assistance pro bon, so no need for a war chest yet.

[hyper]

To "man_of_mr_e", your points are noted and provide an interesting counterpoint to the overwhelmingly positive reactions from everyone else. However there has been sufficient input from core devs for many community members to vote with their feet and move across here in a show of solidarity.

Tjay also has a valid point - a recently established foundation already exists for those who wish to follow that particular line of thinking.

Greg.

Edit: just seen your post Rey, thanks for the quick response - nice to know you guys are there. And grateful thanks to SFLC for their generosity. Still, if there was indeed financial support from Miro it means there is a hole to fill now - how best to make contributions? The membership numbers on this new forum are climbing with each refresh, currently at 441.

[hyper]

slashdotted: http://developers.slashdot.org/develope ... 69&tid=106

[pbailey]

Just another note of support to the core dev team. It's really great to see you sticking together and standing up for Open Source. I've started to spread the word around here to several other Mambo web devs, and also dropped a nice note to Miro on their contact page 

Mambo has been such a great product to work with, I'm glad its offspring looks like it will have a great future.

Cheers

Peter

[coyote]

First I'd like to thank Mambolance for informing all the Freelancers of this development, but in saying this, it's also a two sided sword. You also announced to all the future Buyers that Mambo development may end. How many buyers will continue with a project that maybe on a dieing platform? What is 5 percent of zero projects? How many buyers will jump on a new bandwagon that has no past and an unknown future?

All this news is extremely fresh and exciting, but often this excitement turns to gloom in a fairly short timeframe. As someone that makes a living at providing services for Mambo driven websites, I am glad to see a united front from the developers of the Mambo product, but also concerned with it's future. Perhaps this uproar will cause Miro to rethink their position, but what will happen to those that just read the first headlines, Death To Mambo?

Afterall it is the community and the developers that made Mambo what it is today, NOT Miro.  So I stand behind the discussions of where Mambo is heading, but I would ask that creating headlines may create a tidal wave that forever changes the future of Mambo and it's community.

[stingrey]

Still, if there was indeed financial support from Miro it means there is a hole to fill now - how best to make contributions? The membership numbers on this new forum are climbing with each refresh, currently at 441.

Actually you would be surprised how this hole is being filled by the generosity of the community, the existance of this site and forum is one example of community generosity thanks to Rochen:
http://www.rochenhost.com/
And its Founder & CEO Christopher Adams who has been directly invovled in monitoring the 2 dedicated servers he has given us and his staff who have been tasked to look after us.

But yes help will be needed, but the proper infrastructure will need to be put in place, so watch out for further developments

[de]

I believe we should not _now_ concentrate too much on spreading the news as it already makes it way...
It seems always better to have first something new set up which includes a new name, download etc..
Because now people, regular customers/users come here to maybe get more confused. And were would they now be able to download Mambo and addons and find documentation? They would still go back to the "official" servers or even change the CMS because of this. Later there is probably not the same possibility anymore to spread the news again to make them come for the new files. (A news is only once a news to those having read it).
But well, I am not a marketing professional but this is what I believe would be better.

[TomH]

The King is dead - long... 

lets call it SALSA and move on... as a real Open-Source Project... salsaforge.com is still available... ;-)

and as wikipedia told me - the dance 'mambo' evolved into 'salsa'

just my 0,02 cents

greets and heads up!

[mcsmom]

I know who is, and trust the core dev team.  I just can't say the same about Miro.

It's amazing how familiar the core team members are. Thanks for all the help you have given me!

[alliax]

It would be nice to change the name of the project to LAPURD
What do you think of it ?

It's nice, isn't it ? Look at it in a mirror :-)

[Jamieinnh]

I as a lowly website owner that has used Mambo, vote for this name also.  SALSA..  the next BIG CMS...


Jamie

The King is dead - long... 

lets call it SALSA and move on... as a real Open-Source Project... salsaforge.com is still available... ;-)

and as wikipedia told me - the dance 'mambo' evolved into 'salsa'

just my 0,02 cents

greets and heads up!

[coyote]

With Salsa instead of using components, you use chips. Instead of modules, you use nachos. And nothing goes better with Nachos, Chips and Salsa then a Cold Corona with lime of course. I'm getting thirsty and hungry all of a sudden.

[alliax]

Remember the song COME TOGETHER ?

Well if the project is called itself LAPURD it will be the first time two hot open source projects so similar (the other one being drupal of course) will come together to make the headlines, which can help differenciate LAPURD from MAMBO

What do you think of the idea ? Or do you really think choosing another dance name would make for a good new name ?

Anyway, I will download the next releaseof this new CMS whatever name you'll choose.

[sinanata]

ok guys.As I can see.The greatest os project's getting in a new formatiıon for to be "The Real OS Project".We'll be continuing supporting the system as Mambo(or the newname) Turkey Community.I'm an administrative member of the community site of my country which Coordinating by Danial Taherzadeh.And we'll continue to the supprting "OUR" greatest open source content managers development.

I'll only request for the new name from the DEV Team Members.Before it announced(for preparing the Turkey Community again and Running without Speedlost)

I know that if the expected day will come.This makes all the difficulties,holy.if a reformation's needed.it'll be done.But we must be quick and clear.I want to say Congratulations to the Team.Reformation'll bring you some more responsibility.Creating a new style a new Name a new community isnt an easy thing.But I'm sure that YOU'll overcome against this.For this reason I'm really RELAX  and looking forward.As one of the community leaders I just want the team to inform us about the project before announcement.I'm sure that other countries community leaders are sharing the same ideas with me for helping their people and for giving uninterrupted serivce.I'll be checking this site and looking for some more information every day.

A famous Turkish idiom's coming up

"Allah Utandırmasın!"    (means "I hope the God'll never make you shamed in the future")

sorry for my poor english.

http://mambo.gen.tr

My e-mails are;

[email protected]
[email protected]

[blue-kiwi]

Mambo has been great for me. As someone who doesn't have strong programming skills it's allowed me to get work and make money on projects that, without Mambo, I would never of had a chance to compete for. The fact that those developers who made this possible, with all those wonderful components, bots and modules, are now here means that I'm convinced this is *the* place to be, not the the other forum. I've enjoyed so far pushing Mambo to the limits in terms of template development, and I'm going to enjoy even more pushing the newest incarnation.

Especially looking forward to the creation of new award sites for sites made with the newly branded CMS.. time to step it up a notch!

Peace,

kiwi

[eclipse115]

I just recently started using Mambo and was crushed with the news.  I do want to thank Mambolance for telling everyone as I would have found out even later.

I'd like to offer any support I can possibly give to the new project.  Any kind of graphics help (logos, smilies etc), writing help (i.e. press releases or web writing) feel free to call on me.

I just really want to get a new name for the project and a logo so I can change the footer at the bottom of my website 

I'd love to help out with the branding or renaming

www.girlsgamingguide.com