Mambo Open Source Development Team - Letter to the community - Discussion

[mosbev]

1. Miro has full control and will do with it what Miro wants to.
2. Miro has full control and will do with it what Miro wants to.
3. Miro has full control and will do with it what Miro wants to. mambolove.com is created by Miro.

mambolove.com is a rip off, full stop..............................

Who came up with the original idea or concept? And who held us back in implementing it? 


People in opensourcematters know the real meaning of love, full stop..........................

Lets see who falls in love with what we are and we stand for!


Cheers

MAMBOHATE.com

[ludootje]

Hi all,

I'm sorry if I really don't understand what the fuss is all about... So, some company has attracted a bunch of Mambo developers. Right. So what?? The code is there for grabs, for everyone to study, to tweak, to redesign. That is what I have been doing for the past 12 months, and I intend to do this for many months to come. I frankly don't care if this Miro thingy wants to grab code which is, in my humble opinion, ungrabbable. What can they do? Market something which they develop? OK, let them do it. There are already tons of Mambo extensions which are Not open source, and I don't see how this has hampered the development of open source code. Once something is in the open, as Mambo has been for years, the only thing that can happen is that Miro designs its own flavour of Mambo and tries to sell it. Good luck to them. I'm not at all interested in their future product. I'm only interested in the way open source Mambo will grow - and grow it will, as it always has and always will, with or without Miro, with or without "Foundation". Let's not focus on what some irrelevant company is doing, but on what we can do for the code (or for the documentation  )

My two cents.

Ludo

[Elpie]

Well, all I can really say about mambolove  is - its the first time I have ever seen anyone say, "button up and share the love".  Sounds too much like a very bad pickup line to me, just that someone forgot that the term is "unbutton"!  LOL

For a real laugh though, one needs to read the code of conduct on that stupid site.  Don't get my wrong here, I have nothing (much) against Miro, but heavens above!  I thought they wanted to break into the corporate/commercial market and bring some credibility to OS as a viable business solution.  With the silly name, the bad grammar and the ridiculous code of conduct that site does not do Miro any favours.

[me=Elpie]shakes her head in wonder.[/me]

[richards]

hope the new OSM dev.. can post new files for beta-testing.. so we can start? is there a CVS for the new OSM CMS?

It will be available via either CVS or SVN once we have the new OSM forge up and running.

The servers for these are currently provisioning and the software setup.

My Votes for SVN

[Asphyx]

I say you call it DEVO

I even wrote a theme song (I think we could all use a good laugh)

we made a program
made it real good
then came a guy
took what he could

are we not pissed
we are devo
are we not pissed
DEVO

Now on our own
Without all the suits
the Mambo team
back to gpl roots

we are the man
we are DEVO
the team that can
DEVO

We had the plan
But it took just one monkey to screw it
greed's course has ran
Open source is here to undo it
they can walk like an ape
talk like an ape
Do what a monkey can do
they have the name
but the developers have the glue!

We must repeat
We are DEVO


LOL

[mambocrib]

Good song, but the name is already selected.  Let's wait and see if it is DEVO or not.

:-)

Olu

[richards]

What's the name?

[kontrabant]

http://www.opensourcematters.org/index. ... &Itemid=34

[golgi]

[farimi]

Spread the words out.

Its going to be official. Mambo is Miro's. Joomla! is OSM.  OSM is the community.

[achintya]

The forums at Mamboforge have saved the day for me so many times and is a really important resource, built up over the years.  Is there any way the posts can be ported over to the new opensourcematters forum?  I did a couple of searches for help there yesterday and no posts, the same search at Mamboforge produced 50 or 60 helpful posts.

I think the porting of the forum is a major issue here from the user perspective and until I am sure the new forum has a good library of solutions and questions, I will have to continue using Mamboforge, which feels kind of wierd as I really support this new initiative and love the attitudes behind it, including the name.

achintya

I think gsb's concern about the trove of information available on the current mambo forum is very valid.

Another thing that concerns me in this is that there will be hundreds of mambo users that don't really know what's going on, and from lack of understanding will remain with Mambo.

I am concerned at how long it will take to rebuild the community surrounding the Mambo project.  A dynamite product is only part of the solution.

But time will tell...

[farimi]

hmmm... mambo is a very recognized word in the CMS world. Too popular i must say. there are tons of website recommending the award winning CMS.

Joomla! or even the very essence of OSM together is a new branding to the Opensource CMS public. Not mentioning hundreds or thousands of new CMS users who just happen to jump into CMS world for the last 2 weeks. And when they googling around, what will they find? MAMBO - The award winning Opensource CMS. Power of Simplicity. Not joomla!.

So maybe we should plan on how to 'sell' joomla! name. Maybe an initiative such as FireFox would do. Ever the less, i think we should give a week or two for the name to spread 'naturally'. It is mambo. It has the same code isn't it. It can use the same mods and coms. It feels like mambo and eventually users will choose the diamond over glass. But before that, Joomla! has to stand tall and recognisable as the better CMS between. Then, only after that the diamond will truly shine.

For my personal opinions, i think people at Miro don't see this coming. And now they doing their best to do 'damage control' by releasing the mambolove.com website and releasing the newest mambo version. And while i always going to support the community, i still think joomla has to step up and get growing up fast. There are no time to lose.

Well, that's what i think.

p/s: anything related to mambo is not a good idea. Joomla has to own it's own credibility.

[voodoo55]

Just wanted to show my support too.

I am proud of Joomla and what it stands for....and i do like this new shiny forum!

Really looking forward to the new release of Joomla! 

[Asphyx]

hmmm... mambo is a very recognized word in the CMS world. Too popular i must say. there are tons of website recommending the award winning CMS.

Yes it is...But if Miro keeps on releasing stuff as good as that broken CVS version of 4.5.3 the name won't mean much soon enough....

In time if all the site that run Mambo now switch to Joomla it won't be long before Joomla gets as high a ranking on the search engines as Mambo does...

IT's up to us to get the word out!

Which leads to my next question...

I have posted the name change release post on my site...I assume this is ok with the OSM folks...
if it is I suggest we all post this news to our sites so that the googles and yahoos can start ranking the new name ASAP...

I will add I'm not exactly too pleased with the name...it doesn't roll off the tounge the way mambo did...
even Joomba would have been a better choice...
but it hardly matters to me....

[richards]

its all in the features, not the name...

[Chris]

Try:

http://search.ninemsn.com.au/results.as ... FORM=SMCRT

Or:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=joomla ... al&fr=moz2

[mdausmann]

I am only a Mambo newbie. My first site only went up yesterday.  I chose mambo over XOOPS and even over my own CMS that I have put years of dev into.  I chose mambo because it was the best, better than XOOPS and certainly better than my own software.

I was dissapointed by the announcement.

When it boils down to it, forking a product like this forces everybody to choose, devs, third party devs, templaters, hobbyists even commercial web designers have to choose.  Mambo was a no brainer. It had a name, it had awards, it was the best, it was free AND it had a committed and capable community.  Whats the no brainer now? a proven CMS with no developers or a brand spanking new pre 1.0 CMS that nobody has yet heard of, and that might have the support of devs and templaters going forward.

I dont really know how to end this post.  I suppose I really want Joomla to be fantastic, I want all the 3rd party devs and templaters to back it and I want it to win linux world best Open source solution so that Joomla can be the new no brainer. 

Cudos to the dev team, Mambo is awesome, you blew my software out of the water but I'm over it now, no ill will

Michael

ps. If you need any help (seems unlikely) I offer it, seing as Ive got all this new spare time what with having no software to work on at home.  In my day job I'm a snr AD /architect for a bank, I'm good at VB/.Net/ASPX/Web Services/SQL/XSLT.





 

[ShutterBC]

its all in the features, not the name...

As much as I agree with you... and in the long run I absolutely agree, businesses and evaluators with limited exposure to the CMS world will make choices based on the reputation or name.

I was just talking to an old friend of mine looking to start a Lotus Notes consulting business.  He remembered that I did some work with Mambo, and that he "heard it was pretty good so let's use it".  He didn't remember anything else.  I think that in the short run, it will take a little time for the Joomla name to build up momentum.

Here's a question: Do you think it would be good to establish any link between Mambo and Joomla for new people?

[richards]

I think there are a lot of people who aren't part of the dev community who have heard of mambo, who use mambo and are looking for answers to help them. Absolutely should do something to bring the traffic and interest to joomla.

Those who have the mambo domains, maybe don't see the positive to that- they can simply point them to a new domain with joomla, or continue to use them as a joomla resource. Not only are the sites established already for mambo, but users looking for mambo help will be able to find joomla. Right?

But who am I anyway, I don't make those decisions. I just use the software because its great

[Asphyx]

Lets be realistic here....

While Joomla is technically considered a FORK it really isn't when it comes right down to it...

and for the next year or so or until V5 comes along it is likely both forks will be working on the same features and develoment plan with the only difference being the implementation of that plan...HOW you do the same thing....How each group implements it.

Think of this in the same way you think of Linux which is also OPEN SOURCE...

Linux is Linux no matter which flavor you buy. the difference is in what one FORK of linux packs into the release compared to another.

Red Hat was first and had the name recognition but it didn't stop Mandrake or SUSE from getting widely used....

The same will happen here!

Yes many people know the name Mambo...in time they will know the name Joomla too ESPECIALLY if the same people who have given Mambo that name via support, development and web sites dedicated to it continue to support the devs and use the Joomla name!

What should worry less about the fork and consider this nothing more than a name change...

If the Devs were forced to come up with a complete overhaul of the code to avoid copyright problems this FORK issue woulkd be a problem as they worked on getting it as stable as they had Mambo....But they are starting from the same place they left off with Mambo and are ahead of Mambo in many respects because the Mambo fork developers will have to take some time to get their head around the unfinished work by the Jommla Devs...

The first release of Joomla will be as compatible with Mambo as Mambo's next release...So it won't take more than one upgrade to make Joomla widely used.
If half the sites that use mambo now upgrade with Joomla then you just took 50% of the Mambo fork's marketshare...

And considering the projects that are made to work with Mambo will also work in Joomla, even if the developer targeted Mambo for it's use it will still work with Joomla...So again Joomla will have just as much support maybe more since many devs will stick with the Core Devs and not the Miro fork...

Bottom line is Mambo got the NAME RECOGNITION it got because of us...we use it we support it, we develop for it and the word gets around...
If we do the same thing for Joomla and the core developers add the features Mambo doesn't in time Joomla will over take Mambo in the name game....

If you want to look for a bright side to all of this, this is the closest you will ever get to a STANDARD for CMS....Two programs where modules and components will work in both....

Where I expect this fork business to get ugly is when Mambo starts to fall behind it wouldn't surprise me to see their devs just lifting code from Joomla to fix their problems...
Thats when the real battle begins...

[Elpie]

When it boils down to it, forking a product like this forces everybody to choose, devs, third party devs, templaters, hobbyists even commercial web designers have to choose.  Mambo was a no brainer. It had a name, it had awards, it was the best, it was free AND it had a committed and capable community.  Whats the no brainer now? a proven CMS with no developers or a brand spanking new pre 1.0 CMS that nobody has yet heard of, and that might have the support of devs and templaters going forward.

Hi Michael,
The Mambo CMS you are talking about is the one developed by the core dev team and community (incl 3rd party devs, etc) who are the same people behind Joomla! They are the ones who brought it to the level of being a multiple award-winning CMS, and they are the ones who are still developing it - albeit under a different name.  The name is brand-spanking-new, but the CMS isn't.  Joomla! isn't really a fork - its just the continuation of business as usual.  The circumstances which arose due to the actions of the former sponsor have resulted in the move off their forge and forums, and to the rebranding - but that is all that has changed.
The committed and capable community are all here, supporting the core team (devs, plus all the other core teams) and you just need to read the press and google the name to realise it will not be long before Jooma! is as well-known as the Mambo CMS.

Mambo still retains the original name, but has divurged from the development roadmap. Whether it can retain its status as an award-winner without any of the core team remains to be seen.  What Miro do with the code now is up to them.  If they do a good job with it, this benefits everyone. 

While the future of the Mambo CMS remains to be seen, in my opinion at least, there is no doubt that Joomla! will continue the development path that has brought it this far.  It's still the same award-winner, and will be again under its new name.

[mdausmann]

Thanks for the Reply Elpie

I'm a bit of a pedant, so its not much poing playing semantic shenanigans with me i'm afraid.  Regardless of how stagnant the mambo code base becomes and regardless of how dynamic the Joomla code base becomes.  Mambo was one code base. Now there are two and nobody is gauranteeing that they will remain in synch or even interoperable with each other. 

Thats a Fork.

...From Joomla FAQ

What happens in the future when Joomla! and Mambo diverge?

That's a hard question to answer because we don't know.

I have spent an unusual (for me) amount of time reading the mambo foundation info, the Joomla info and this forum and the responses to the anouncement.  It is clear that there is an overwhelming amount of support for Joomla and the Dev Team.  I have felt compelled to join this forum (again, unusual for me) and support Joomla.

If anybody asks me (and they do) whats the best solution for their community/small business website.  I'm going to say Joomla! 

So get your house in order, get your copyright/legal protection and go hard   Go Joomla!

[unclepete]

I have to add a couple of things to Michael's and Elpie's comments.

We, the community behind the CMS, know that there is no current difference between mambo and Joomla! However, the awards, recognitions and accoldaes are all branded 'Mambo', so the average Joe who is looking for a good, stable CMS will choose Mambo based on available information.

As Elpie stated, the problems occur when mambo/miro starts to haemorrhage internally (and some may say that the release of 4.5.3beta is a sign this has already started). The mambo users will start to question their original choice and jump ship and I suspect that a 'new' CMS that is based on the old mambo will be at the bottom of the selection list.

The community MUST immediately connect mambo and Joomla! in the press and in the IT world generally so that the progression can be established and Joomla! can stand in it's own right. When Joomla! starts winning awards, the connection to mambo can be left to wither and die...

Just a thought, but the habit of Joomla community members to use *ambo or $ambo when they mean mambo will disconnect the two products, as far as search engines are concerned, and don't we want any mambo searcher is see Joomla! and investigate further? I use a small 'm' in mambo and miro to plainly state the disrespect I feel for this situation.

[SeaKnight]

This is a fork - even if it is temporarily the same, from Mambo.

Mambo was a fork from PHPNuke, when it went from under its original dev system.

A few years ago I started using Nuke instead of just a web site from MS Front Page. I learned enough php to do whatever I really wanted with it, but, being a fairly experienced programmer in other languages, soon lost interest in the poorly structured code and the loose hooks to modules etc. I also became wary of having to spend so much energy endlessly trying to secure the stuff I was adding on, as well as Nuke itself.

So I looked around at a lot of code. Mambo was well structured code, with large community, but mostly with good development team. After looking at many, many cms solutions, I chose Mambo. And I converted a commercial site to it. As I developed the site I kept coming back to the mambo site etc. and found it a little frustrating that so much was so strung out among different locations.

Today I found out about this move.

Well, it was the dev team that caused me to use mambo, so I guess I'll follow to joomla.

The folks at Mambo are trying to grab up a dev team from the user group, so it will become something different, as will joomla.

Whether I stay with this, or go back to mambo, or go to something completely different will depend on three things.

Code - if these guys keep up the way they were, that's a no brainer.

Community - Looks like most of it moved too.

Third party development - I might even do some of that. Looks like developers are falling right in line here.

So, to the dev team... good luck. To the rest of the community.... please don't overthink this, or get caught up in the angst or insecurity of the moment. It's the internet after all, always volatile, always changing.

And that volatility is the very stability of web based systems. There is a rule of entropy that encompasses all systems. Without maintenance and repair all systems fall apart. Even maintenance and repair just slows the process. Sometimes a system just has to reinvent itself on the old foundation to stop the deterioration.

[Asphyx]

I think a lot of the confusion stems from the fact that at this point there is no Joomla to install and they are afraid it will be a drastic change from what they are used to...
The folks here have done what they can to ease these fears and letting everyone know what the first release will be is nothing more or less Mambo 4..5.2.3 with some more bug fixes

Onlce a Joomla release is made most of the confusion should be done with...

[Chris]

Another article:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/s ... 025,00.htm

[absalom]

Another article:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/s ... 025,00.htm

Nice catch, Chris. 

[stingrey]

Thank you its been added to our 'In the Press' section, which we are trying to keep up to date:
http://www.joomla.org/component/option, ... Itemid,45/

[farimi]

split up the dev team, split up the code, split up what ever to split.... maybe it isnt a fork maybe it is a spoon, maybe it doesn't matter what ever it is....

Maybe its *mambo.  Maybe its Joomla!  Still in the end, users whom supporting the software is the main factor.  Lets play a game called.

User-friendly CMS  and let see what happened after that... 

[wyzemoro]

split up the dev team, split up the code, split up what ever to split.... maybe it isnt a fork maybe it is a spoon, maybe it doesn't matter what ever it is....

Maybe its *mambo.  Maybe its Joomla!  Still in the end, users whom supporting the software is the main factor.  Lets play a game called.

User-friendly CMS   and let see what happened after that... 

User-friendly and flexibility is i think what matters.