Mambo Open Source Development Team - Letter to the community - Discussion

[Russell]

Sorry I'm late, been busy the last month 

Lots and lots of reading to catch up on what I missed, and I'm sure there's more to be read.
I'm here to support... lets roll.

- Russell

[farimi]

So lets the game begins.

[tech4mation]

Phew! Just got through reading all 33 pages of this topic... 

Just another voice in support of the core dev team and all associated contributors to what has been mambo.

Also looking forward to the progress of the best CMS I've found around. So once Joomla releases  v1.0 I'll start using that instead of mambo!

Cheers all,
Grant
tech4mation.com

[newart]

So lets the game begins.

We are all waiting for that!

[cronlin]

I was wondering something. I have bookmarked the Trial Before Download - V452 and it says that it is from the Mambo Open Source Development Team, which to me would mean the developers here now. What is going to happen to this site? Is everything going to be switched over to Joomla! or is this strictly in Mira's hands now?

[newart]

http://www.joomla.org/index.php?Itemid= ... aq&catid=7

[stingrey]

I was wondering something. I have bookmarked the Trial Before Download - V452 and it says that it is from the Mambo Open Source Development Team, which to me would mean the developers here now. What is going to happen to this site? Is everything going to be switched over to Joomla! or is this strictly in Mira's hands now?

http://www.joomla.org/content/view/64/43/

[cronlin]

I was wondering something. I have bookmarked the Trial Before Download - V452 and it says that it is from the Mambo Open Source Development Team, which to me would mean the developers here now. What is going to happen to this site? Is everything going to be switched over to Joomla! or is this strictly in Mira's hands now?

http://www.joomla.org/content/view/64/43/

oh thanks, I totally missed that when I went to joomla.org last night

[Asphyx]

Pardon my interjecting here, but isn't this what open source is all about?

One person drops a project and someone else picks it up where they left off?

As for the steering committe, sure it is always better to have someone to help coordinate what is going on in the different parts of a project. But that doesn't have to be Miro or a foundation nor does it have to have control of everyone either.

At some point Joomla will find someone who can perform this roile and help coordinate the myriad of developers to ensure that all pieces actually work in the whole and that one developer doesn't go around re-inventing the wheel someone else already coded.

I'm sure most of us USERS would be willing to wait how many days a year it costs us towards the next update for the developers to get together, toss back a few beers and talk about what they are doing, want to do, have done and what should be next on the list.

The Core Developers have ALWAYS been responsive to problems the userbase has had and the requests it would like to see. I don't see how Miro or some FOUNDATION not being involved will change any of that...

And from everything I have read the foundation was made to support Miro not Mambo!
They made mambo open source to get other people to create their product and now that the product is worthy of selling they set up this foundation to try and take it back...

Yes a foundation usually helps you to build a more stable structure but if the foundation itself is faulty the structure it is supporting will also fail...
I believe that is the case here and while some developers will drop out of supporting Mambo AND Joomla because of the upheaval well so be it...It's open source and no one says that once you start an open source project that you have to spend the rest of your life working on it...Somone else will have to pick up the reins for them just as someone at some point will pick up the reins at the Mambo Foundation eventually...

the reason I support Joomla now is because I'm going to stick with the folks that got me this far...
Miro sure didn't get me here, neither did the foundation...
the steering committe was probably a big help but only because the MCDT had a say in what it decided...
The MCDT or JOOMLA Devs don't need a suit or committe or board or foundation to tell them what needs to be done and what features are marketable...
they have us the end user....
Always have!

Probably always will until the product stops being good...which I don't see happening anytime soon!

[vavroom]

Asphyx is responding to a couple posts that have been split off and moved here: http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... 119.0.html

[Chris]

I don't know if this would have helped:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/s ... 380,00.htm

[newart]

The Core Developers have ALWAYS been responsive to problems the userbase has had and the requests it would like to see. I don't see how Miro or some FOUNDATION not being involved will change any of that...

And from everything I have read the foundation was made to support Miro not Mambo!
They made mambo open source to get other people to create their product and now that the product is worthy of selling they set up this foundation to try and take it back...

... you're right

[Faxman]

Just one simple thing, way to go

[thomas.dahl]

Cool!  I just got banned from mamboserver...  I got so pissed with the way Miro has manipulated the mambo platform for their own use so I have been posting little rude (and childish) messages here and there.  Actually, I think they were pretty patient and only just banned me...  It's a shame that my posts have been removed.. some I though ok... others pretty lame.. Anyone else been banned?  Seems Miro are starting to sanitise their forum.

I'd like to vote for http://lonemamber.blogspot.com/  One cool cowboy who seems more pissed than me!

Thomas

[SineMacula]

Yeah, I got banned a couple of days ago...    -- I think I was pretty good about continuing to help folks over there, with a gentle nudge in this direction in my sig. - I usually only actively directed them over here if I couldn't help them enough and they weren't getting any other help. I think what did it though was my response to someone posting about lovemambo.com -- I replied something to the effect of "If you really love Mambo..." (you can guess the rest!) 

It appears they've kept the rest of my posts available though... interesting to see my username with "Banned" underneath it. In almost 40 yrs, I've never been much of a trouble-maker, so it seems strange to see that! 

[My3dscrapbook.com]

Competition is a good thing!

I wish the development team the best, and am proud of you all for standing up for what you believe in, and am also glad you decided to break off, because I was ready to dump Mambo, when the foundation was created.

I don't know why Miro created the foundation, except to make money, a business practice that goes way back in the US, if you can't raise money selling stock, create a foundation to fund the business expenses.  Transfering the copyright to a foundation owned by Miro is just a smoke screen, and the money from the foundation will be filtered into Miro pockets, while the development team works for free.

As far as users migrating to Joomla!, it will be only a matter of time, before google puts Joomla.org at the top of the CMS list.

Best Wishes.

[newart]

I don't know why Miro created the foundation, except to make money, a business practice that goes way back in the US, if you can't raise money selling stock, create a foundation to fund the business expenses.  Transfering the copyright to a foundation owned by Miro is just a smoke screen, and the money from the foundation will be filtered into Miro pockets, while the development team works for free.

I think you're right 

[Asphyx]

I understand fully why Miro made the foundation...And in essence your right it is an attempt to take control of Mambo back...

they found a way to get people to develolp what they deem THIER PRODUCT for free...Release it via the GPL and keep the copyright on the name...Let the rest of the world build the reputation of that copyrighted name and then take it over again for sale!

It was a great idea for them short term. Problem was they didn't take into consideration all of the rammifications of releasing something to the GPL....

Never once had they considered that the developers could just leave and take their code with them add a few tweaks and release it as another project. Maybe they did consider it and thought the name was all that mattered. Well all they have is a name now...

they have convinced themselves that is all that matters...They are wrong but that's their problem!
There are MANY discussions over at Mambo forge where they try and put all the bad things about Mambo on the recently departed Dev team yet try to say all the GOOD is Mambo and no one else....

Like saying all the bugs in 4.5.2 are the developers fault yet when the awards that software won are mentioned it's all mambo not the Developers...

I even got a reply from Peter Lamont telloing me how the Developers were getting free trips to expos and that was Miro's contribution to mambo...I asked what new feature that got me but got no reply before the thread was closed...

I believe the foundation was an attempt to STACK THE BALLOT BOX since Miro found itself completely outnumbered...they had no control or real influence the developers just did what they were doing...
The only way to wrnstle control back was to create a board where the developers would have little or no say...I'm sure if the devs hadn't left that at SOME point the Devs might have had some representation on the foundation board...But they STILL would have been powerless because Miro would find partners and pay their board fees just to get more token votes in their favor...

In the end their tactic will fail...Thier product might one day be excellent with the right development team in place but by then all the 3PDs (most of whom found the idea of paying to make someone else's product better was an insult) will be gone...

They are acting as if they simply lost a development team...but the truth is Miro alienated an ENTIRE COMMUNITY!
It is that community that made mambo great, developed all the usefull functions outside of the core code
that made it popular and not only do they have to find a team that can add to the core that exists but try and find someone to develop coms,mods bots and templates for them...

And if you ask me anyone stupid enough to give Miro a grand for the priviledge of making Miro's product better is also probably too stupid to make a decent component!

If they ever want to see the reality of what they have done all they need to do is look at the forge news on newly released projects...
There has been about two projects in the last 3 weeks released on the forge there...One is a template!
There was a time where you would get 5 times as many per hour on the forge...

I believe they know they made a mistake but can't admit it now due to stupid pride...
They released 4.5.3 CVS version for two reasons...One to try and say the developers suck and can't make a good product in a desperate attempt to scare people off Joomla...And two so that someone stupid enough to be their pawn will attempt to fix it for them!

threads are closed on the forum almost hourly and no one is getting any help there...

I truly believe in a year we will be spending more time trying to DISTANCE the Joomla name from the Mambo brand because Miro is going to ruin the name all these guys gave it before they left and made Joomla!

Miro owns the name and at some point that is all they are going to have...a name...covered in mud!

[newart]

I've read your intelligent observations... and I have to thank you very much for your "discoveries"... at a certain point you state also that you "... believe they know they made a mistake but can't admit it now due to stupid pride..."  - So I thought about at a sort of "future peace and a new solution together", but I know it's unreal and impossible... I'm happy to be here with joomla as it's the right way but... I think that a lot of people are already in confusion as I have the impression that in internet there is a lack of information and other people has "fear" to "change" form a known brand to a new unknown brand... However I see that a lot of people are here, I know, but not ALL people!

just my 2cts

[mediawizard]

I dont know if this is relevant but $iro has released a 'new' commercial CMS called $ango or something.

Was quite surprised... are they distancing themselves from the name also?

[bluesaze]

it not new its just been rebranded .............

I dont know if this is relevant but $iro has released a 'new' commercial CMS called $ango or something.
Was quite surprised... are they distancing themselves from the name also?

[newart]

It's very difficult to understand the real meaning of this (unknown for me) re-branding... We talk about a transition from $ambo to joomla but if there is another name...

it is confusing

so it's not clear  if it is possible to become joomla....


well I don't know what it is their strategy    ... don't worry, I have to say that, it's a problem of them not ours... 

[lonemamber]

I'd like to vote for http://lonemamber.blogspot.com/  One cool cowboy who seems more pissed than me!

Well pilgrim, this ol' cowboy was completely deleted from the ol' homestead a week or so ago, sure enough I reckon I garnered some special treatment.

It's a shame really, it's not like I'd been rude to anyone over there, maybe they just aint fans of my humble blog.

Altho 'course Mr. Lamont proclaimed his enjoyment of it, maybe he's been drinkin' too much snake oil.

I did make an attempt to make amends there, started a new account for meself and sent one of them private messages to Mr. Lamont askin' if we could just get along seein' as how he was a fan 'n' all... Deleted again.

Well, maybe it's time to quit dawdlin' in the ol ghost town that is Mambo and get buildin' in the new frontier that is Joomla!

That's not to say I won't keep on reportin' on the issues till the fat Lamont sings

Thankye kindly for yer vote,

The Lone Mamber

p.s. Fat lady, I meant fat lady!

[bluesaze]

Well pilgrim, this ol' cowboy was completely deleted from the ol' homestead a week or so ago, sure enough I reckon I garnered some special treatment.

Man I love ya .......... Big fan of yours Mr. mamber

[unclepete]

Fat lady, I meant fat lady!

ROFL!

Just finished reading the LoneMamber's blog. You're spot on the money, cowboy (and bloody entertaining at the same time).

[TomT]

Thumbs up for the Lone Mamber, it's great writing, big fun and even informative!

[lonemamber]

Aww shucks, ya'll sure do make on ol' cowboy feel proud 

Why I was sure I'd be hangin' up me firin' iron and movin' on to other parts weeks ago, but them Miro varmits sure do provide more than enough ammo for me to be spinnin' yarns by the fireside for some time...

Now with the release of the new Joomla! we've all got much to be lookin' forward to, the activity round these parts is just astoundin'. The way I see it tho, pardners, we're still members of the Mambo community.

Has the ol' cowboy lost his mind, yer askin'? Well, things have been movin' so darn fast it's easy to forget it's only been a month or so since we were all happy mambers. Crazy aint it?

So as long as there's a need for it, I reckon we shouldn't give up on our ol' turf as if all those years spent buildin' a township over there had no meanin'. Nope, that aint right, aint right at all.

Not that I'm condonin' any kind of bad behaviour over on the ol' homestead by former Mambo community members. Not at all, pilgrims, but I reckon we should all be doin' our bit to let them Miro varmits know what they've done just aint acceptable.

'Course ya'll should support this here project and get the word out about that as well, and it's good to see so much dedication and determination over here in the new township of Joomla!

For my part, I'll be movin' my humble blog over to Joomla! 1.0.1 real soon. In fact, with the kind assistance of a few pilgrims the entire blog is runnin' in Joomla right now, exceptin' I'm havin' some trouble findin' a host for it...

If any of ya'll kind pilgrims can offer some small space to host the new blog, send me a smoke signal.

Thankye kindly ya'll,

The Lone Mamber

[webdrift]

mambo has forked and the core team left yet
Andrew Eddie, Andy Miller and Mitch Pirtle continue to claim they are core developers of mambo over on their site, jamboworks.com

http://www.jamboworks.com/About_Us/Abou ... anagement/

I think this is a disgrace 
After all the talk and press, they need to update their personal site to refelect their allegiance to joomla.
Please update your text guys, this makes it look like your trying to profit from the mambo brand.

[bluesaze]

Awwwww come on give them a break will ya ......... Maybe they are too busy to chage the title....( joomla 1.0 and mambo 4.2.3 are almost the same.)

I think this is a disgrace 
After all the talk and press, they need to update their personal site to refelect their allegiance to joomla.
Please update your text guys, this makes it look like your trying to profit from the mambo brand.

[Predator]

mambo has forked and the core team left yet
Andrew Eddie, Andy Miller and Mitch Pirtle continue to claim they are core developers of mambo over on their site, jamboworks.com

http://www.jamboworks.com/About_Us/Abou ... anagement/

I think this is a disgrace 
After all the talk and press, they need to update their personal site to refelect their allegiance to joomla.
Please update your text guys, this makes it look like your trying to profit from the mambo brand.

Priority for them is to have all settled down here with all the needed organisation in the background, even i have not changed all my sites to Joomla! ( well but the footer is changed   ) , so if they got time to think on their own instead all to think for the community they surely will change.