Why ?

[Gasoline]

Hi,

I can't find a emailadres or form to respond to the Joomla developers. So I try this post:

On this website: http://directory.fsf.org/webauth/content/ I do not see Joomla mentioned (Mambo is mentioned).

I think Joomla should be be mentioned there.

Hope that I helped.

Marc

[RobInk]

Hi,

Thanks for the heads up. I'll send a note to one or two core members about his.

Regards Robin

[leolam]

Robin, hoi 

I completely agree. I have tried to contact core on several occasions formally and i do have my direct channels but i do suggest that a specific Board is created for this where users can post and core can reply.. this should be independent from the dev-site and either you or Tonie could filter the messages to be forwarded to the correct persons. I do believe an email "contact us" does not make sense since you will get hundreds of useless msg's in but you could open a Board for this  IF PROPERLY MANAGED and Maintained

2 ct's
Leo

[brad]

Thanks for letting us know. We'll look into getting listed there.

BTW It's not hard to contact one of us Just send a PM, or email, or post in the correct forum, and we should pick it up

[Gasoline]

BTW It's not hard to contact one of us Just send a PM, or email, or post in the correct forum, and we should pick it up

I was looking on the Joomla.org site. But your right. Enough contacts around here. 

[AmyStephen]

Leo -

I used to think that was important, too. But, honestly, I don't anymore. There is nothing that I need to contact "the core" about and nothing that they, as a group, should feel a need to discuss with me. We have no relationship or need of one.

I believe the core serves a function, but, it is a "lightweight" administrative and operational function with some limited workgroup interaction within Joomla!. They make some structural decisions but I think LOTS of REALLY IMPORTANT decisions and directions are starting to be made in the workgroups by talented and willing non-core people engaged in work who are emerging from the crowd (take the recent growth in security for a hugely positive example or the growth in the development ranks - check out the names on the SVN each night - check out how much code is generated by the dude who "quit!")

And look how cooperative involved core members are with spreading this power. It is smart for Joomla!. The core is a textbook example of what a true “flattened management structure” should look like. By creating a pipeline to the core, we are strengthening a false illusion of a "central processing unit" or a "government" and that is simply not necessary and would be counterproductive.

The developers work together on where they want the software to go -- it is in their best interest to listen to their end user community – to build up their developer community – to understand the industry -- and lead on, in that area. The other workgroups should do the same. So should each of us as individuals; sometimes, acting alone, sometimes as teams or groups.

Given the GPL, we are free to do what we want with Joomla! People with ideas do not need permission or blessing or coordination with the core. No one is "in charge," we are a cooperative community of free and equal people who share interest in this software. If Brad gets tired of us, he can kick us out of the forums. But, no one can keep us from the software or from continuing to network with others or to learn and grow. We are free.

Structurally, I think the one thing we are missing is an ombudsman function, or a grievance process, for helping to make certain people have a “last resort” opportunity to resolve problems instead of feeling it is imperative to leave.  But, in a free and open community such as this, people are free to rise up, work together, and build this role, if they can also built the reputation needed to have people respect the role and recognize its importance and use the service.

The core probably couldn't help it more than anyone else because the core has no power over anyone to force them to comply. They are not our bosses or fathers and mothers or our Kings and Queens. Eventually, the core ought to become that four-year community service "opportunity" you hope no-one taps you on the shoulder for and BEGS you to volunteer.

Frankly, I am at a loss to come up with one single reason I would want to address the group and other than the valid reason Gasoline is raising for “group to group” communication. I can’t think why anyone should address the group. I know it seems like there SHOULD be reasons, but, when you really think about it, what are those reasons?

It is also obvious they don’t want to be approached as a group, because they have never invited comment as a group or made themselves available as a group.  And, we all live too far away from one another for a company picnic or to take a group photo, so…?

Do you kind of see what I am saying, Leo? What do you think? Why should the group be available for communication? I'm curious how far off my thinking is.

Amy

@Brad - sometimes I don't know what you mean in some of your responses. To be honest, sometimes, it seems more like a "brush off" or "smoothing things over" than a genuine answer. So, what do you think? Why are you guys organized in such a way that it is nearly impossible to "talk" to you as a group?

Obviously, you don't have to answer. And, maybe you have not given it much thought. It's a tough question, but, I am curious, I guess, in anyone on the core team's response. It doesn't really matter because I do not think it really changes anything, but, I think it would be very interesting to hear comments from you guys on core about this. For curiosity sake, if nothing else! 

Thanks! Amy

BTW - as a favor - if you don't like this post or its off-topic or stupid or whatever - just delete it. Don't hack away at it, okay? I am not trying to be negative or cause trouble and maybe my thinking is really out there, but, it is sincere.

[brad]

@Brad - sometimes I don't know what you mean in some of your responses. To be honest, sometimes, it seems more like a "brush off" or "smoothing things over" than a genuine answer. So, what do you think? Why are you guys organized in such a way that it is nearly impossible to "talk" to you as a group?

It appears the original thread poster has no problem understanding and grasping my reply.
I try to keep my replies as brief and to the point as possible, and it seems to help mistaken messages/mis-communications etc

It worked well in this case, the message got through and the site in question has been contacted, could not have been smoother and simpler.

[AmyStephen]

Thanks. I see my mistake. I thought you were responding to Leo! My sincerest apologies and I really appreciate your answer.

[leolam]

Leo -
Do you kind of see what I am saying, Leo? What do you think? Why should the group be available for communication? I'm curious how far off my thinking is.
Amy

Amy -
You post a sort of open letter to me. Thanks i missed the postman initially  The only reason why i think it is good to have a forum-board where we can communicate directly with the "core" and maybe even global/mods is the simple fact that many issues addressed by "end-users" related to Joomla-improvements or concerns are being ignored or missed either or. A public Board is public and entries cannot be ignored....I give you one example.....a while ago i posted a request to insert an empty configuration.php in the installer package. Very simple but can avoid loads of questions and installation errors. Nothing difficult and no big deal at all! Marko, ( who i deeply respect for all the work he does for this "community" let their be no doubt at all!) nic Predator, picked this up and told me that he would forward it internally.....that was after the v.1.0.5 (!) we are now on 1.0.11 and nothing has been done with a very simple issue (it avoids the non-writable topic) Throw these things out into the puiblic and nobody can hide from it or ignore it....it needs to be addressed just as all the security/bugs issues are being addressed...one by one picked up and addressed. That is the reason for that specfic Board. A wishlist board is a garbage can.... A specific Board....simple....general concerns on Joomla, the road we are taking, improvements etc...out in open and not in the backyard where it is now with seperate and hidden boards for "core"/ "mods'/ etc. everywhere and nowghhere is being posted an no one knows why the roadmap looks like it does to be honest. I just saw a post from one of the mods asking if we have a feature list for 1.5 ? Only that is already reason to have better coms with the dev-team! One more, i think that only very few (hundreds of users and developers) are aware what is going to happen to their sites when Joomla 1.5 is going to come............Do they know they have basically to start all over? Where do i address the concern that current users should be "massaged" already slowly? I know we have a special Board for that where David is doing a fabulous job but do the masses know about whats happening? see? These are issues for me to request the contact...If i send an email as suggested by Brad to him or anybody of the core and they thnk its useless they throw it away..who decides its useless? 

You have my email and my private Skype though so any direct concerns or questions you can ask me in my quarters..... (if you know what i mean) 

cheers
Leo

[brad]

If you have moderting issue, please use the 'report to moderator' link.

If you have a *forge* issue, there is an entire forum for this purpose.

If you have an Extensions Site issue, there is an entire forum for this purpose.

If you have an issue with another official site, there is an entire forum for this purpose.

If you have a development issue, there is an entire forum for this purpose.

Serious, it's not hard to 'contact' one of the developers/moderators etc of Joomla.

Now, I better lock yet another thread that has been taken so far off topic.