Copyright - How about the local support sites / official translation partners ? Topic is solved

[Rybik]

Is there any legal possibility for the local support sites / official translation partners to sell some gadgets with Joomla! logo. Of course all money will be spend on hosting and maybe some awards in our local competitions.

If i missed any information, just give me the link

[brad]

Please see: http://www.opensourcematters.org/compon ... Itemid,61/

[AmyStephen]

Rybik -

Brad provided you the link to officially request authorization from the Open Source Matters board to use the Joomla! logo in a commercial context. (In this case, to sell Joomla! t-shirts.) That is an appropriate response.

I'll tell you, though, that unofficially as a community member who does not have a drop of authority or inside knowledge, the answer will very likely be 'no' at this time. So, you can submit the request - and it could take 60 days to hear the answer "No, not at this time."  This has been requested by other community members and turned down.

As I have read some of these discussions, the decision seems to boil down to an inability to really be able to ensure not-for-profit sales. Most do not have official 501 (c) 3 status or some type of legal entity and board of directors. There is also no way to ensure the books are kept properly and all records are submitted to the proper government agencies, etc. It just sounds like we are not ready, yet, to distribute that level of authority, yet.

Now that I have possibly discouraged you (and I sincerely hope I have not), I want to invite you to join us in discussing the formation of Joomla! Users Groups. Right now, we are just gathering people interested in establishing JUGs in their local communities. If that is of interest to you, please introduce yourself in this thread. < http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,138398.0.html >.  Some of these same issues will be discussed in that thread as a group.

Again, I am only sharing my opinion given little bits of what I have observed and you should absolutely follow Brad's directions and submit a request if you are really interested. Just don't get your hopes up! I would encourage the OSM to establish and announce a policy (at least temporarily) indicating merchandising of the logo outside of the central store will not be allowed at this time. IMO, that would help set expectation and reduce misunderstanding. And, it makes sense to me.

Kindest regards, Amy

[brad]

I seriously have no idea how you translate 'gadgets' as t-shirts Amy.... anyway...

OSM is the entity that you will want to direct your requests to Rybik.

[AmyStephen]

All we sell is t-shirts, Brad. 

[manuman]

At this stage we do not approve the logo for usage in Merchandise. We are however, looking at options that may allow UG's and the like gain some income from Merchandise sales.  I don't foresee this being something that will happen overnight. There are a number of issues, most important being that we don't open the door for people to easily produce and sell Joomla! merchanise purely for they own profit and that we can maintain control over the logo usage without it becoming a full time job to do so.

Cheers
Shayne

[AmyStephen]

Shayne -

Thanks for that well stated message. It makes a great deal of sense what the OSM board is saying and I appreciate the board so carefully guarding the Joomla! logo and world-wide reputation. I would encourage your statements be added to the request form, even in exact form, so that this "current position" is broadly understood. If not, this is an excellent forum post to reference.

Amy

[manuman]

Thanks Amy... good idea.

[eyezberg]

At least the question is answered, as we were going to produce T's for the French JoomlaDay.
We'll just use our logo and url then, which will give our site more exposure
Too bad for the official site.

[brian]

Special permission has been given in the past for Joomla!Day t-shirts

[brad]

Special permission has been given in the past for Joomla!Day t-shirts

AFAIK in each of these cases, the proviso was that the shirts could not be sold, but rather only used to give away.

[manuman]

Brads correct... for Joomla!Days the te-shirts have been given away at the event. We will contibue to do this.

Cheers
Shayne

[AmyStephen]

Shayne -

I hope we can think of a way to overcome these challenges for Joomla!Days events. (I say this sheepishly knowing the OSM board has given this lots of thought and I am just now thinking about it.) We all know, of course, Joomla!Days are important and can create great momentum in a local community. There usually is cost associated to get a good meeting hall and equipment - DONUTS and coffee. Plus, many expect a T-shirt at these events. Overall, the quantity (occurrences) should be relatively low and easier to manage. I think (?) we could keep this one simple and, as an added bonus, do so with transparency.

To qualify to sell T-shirts carrying the Joomla! logo for Joomla!Day events:

1. Day organizers should post in the Joomla! Forum dedicated to Joomla!Day events < http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/board,342.0.html >

2. In the thread for the event, organizers must notify Joomla.org of the date and location of the event, and an intent to sell T-shirts with the Joomla! logo, and the names of two people who will share responsibility to oversee and vouch for the bookkeeping of the event.

3. The T-shirt should have the date and the name of the event, use the Joomla! Logo as per the stated guidelines, and the design should be approved before organizers announce the design as official. The OSM board would respond within a week of seeing the posted design. It would be the event organizer's responsibility to provide time for the approval process. It would be recommended that a month's time be built into the schedule to allow for back and forth posts between the event organizers and the OSM for the final T-shirt design approval.

4. Two people from the event (organizers) would account for the receipts of T-shirt sales after the event by posting that the funds were either completely used to fund the cost of the day or that any remainder was donated to the local Joomla! Users Group or given to a named charitable organization. (In other words, no one personally profited from the T-shirt sales, plus, for a single-day event, this is not going to be a lot of $.)

It sounds like the OSM is hoping to open this up in a measured fashion so that we can ensure the integrity of the logo use and protect the name of Joomla!. I support that. We also want advance the use of Joomla! which Joomla!Days certainly accomplishes. I hope this is doable to build on our existing processes and accomplish both goals rather easily.

Thanks for considering,
Amy

[brad]

Amy, when are you arranging a Joomladay?

Perhaps before you insult the status quo, or suggest alternatives, you can fit into the structure that is already in place.

[AmyStephen]

Brad -

Arg! I am going to assume your response was due to a bad day. What you are saying makes it sound like you believe that community members should not suggest alternatives or that by doing so it is an insult on the status quo.

Community members should feel free to discuss Joomla! issues openly, provided they are polite and kind and do not repeatedly raise the same subject. We also need to respect a "final decision." But, this is the first time the topic of authorizing Joomla!Day events to sell T-shirts has gotten *any* community interaction.

OK, why me? Not that anyone should have to justify their involvement in a conversation, but, I will answer you because I respect you. This issue fits into the question of merchandising with Joomla! Users Groups. I agree with the OSM's reasoning on this point and I can totally get behind and support and defend that decision. But, I have questions as this relates to Joomla!Days. Joomla!Days and Joomla! Users Groups are connected. So, I tried to lay out my thinking on this.

Now, I look forward to hearing the OSM's response on my question. And, I hope we can come to an agreement, of course! But, I have heard "no" before in my life, Brad, and I certainly do not look at this as a show stopper to running a Joomla!Day. You will not see me bringing it up over and over and over. You will not see me throwing a fit if it's not allowed. I am simply asking that my idea be considered and that I be provided a response.

I'd recommend you delete your post and mine. These are both off topic. Brad, you are extremely supportive of this community and you have dedicated hours and hours and hours to us. So, I do not want your words to send the wrong message. I would hate to think that others felt they were not welcome to be open and honest in the forums and that their participation in these discussions is not appreciated. I know that is not true.

If you need to talk, Brad, I am certainly willing to do that. Thanks!
Amy