'Bumping' in the forums

[talacrush]

I'm posting this to gauge reaction from the community on the subject of 'bumping' (reposting a query to keep it visible).

I recently had my wrist slapped for bumping a query that I'd received no replies to. First I apologise for that, until then I didnt even know what bumping was.

The way I see it, bumping is symptomatic of a growing problem with the Joomla community.  The forum is a victim of its own success; so many people with so many questions. This being the case, what is someone to do when they get no answer? Sometimes this is because there is no answer; no one knows. But other times (and I suspect more often than not) it's because the rate of posting is so fast that it gets quickly buried below a mountain of other questions and is overlooked. The simple act of not logging in for a day or two means you miss many posts that maybe you could have helped with had they remained easily visible.

I think what I'm saying is that to have a blanket ban on bumping is not helpful to those that simply get no reply to a question. Just out of curiosity I checked yesterdays posts; 13% didnt get a reply. Who's to say whether that is a good or bad statistic, but the fact is those 13% are now stuck.  We're all trying hard to get to grips with Joomla and when you are inexperienced and get stuck you often have nowhere to go other than the forum.

My two-pence worth would be to say to allow bumping on posts that have received no reply because its helpful to those probably most in need of help.  In an ideal world, would it be possible to structure the forum so that nil-reply posts stay high in the listings and then maybe get dropped if there's nothing after say a week?  By that means you increase the chances of your post being seen especially by those that do not log in everyday.

Hoping this post gets better than a nil reply

Thanks

[AmyStephen]

I'm going to up your odds at getting a question answered. 

First of all, I get your point. I thought the very same thing when I was new.

BTW - how did you know it was 13% unanswered questions? If that's true, that's an awesome response rate! 80% answered would be stellar, IMO. I am just curious how you got those stats, that is the only reason I ask. Stats on this very question would be helpful and I have not figured out a good way to come to any conclusive number on the percent of unanswered questions. The forum is not the best at collecting that information, IMO. (This has been discussed a few times.)

Think about this, though. The stats that we do have show this *AVERAGE* number of posts each day is 1,275. The average number of new topics (primary questions) is 275. Bumping adds to the number of posts. Naturally, it makes it EVEN MORE difficult to sort through all of these queries that are made day, after day, after day. Compound the number of bumps in and it becomes obvious bumping adds noise to this already enormous load.

Still haven't helped you have I? The secret is people do best when they learn to help themselves. 

What I found was this. If my question didn't get answered then I probably didn't ask it very well. So, articulate what you need more clearly. Provide more details. Provide screen shots and a URL. Describe what you tried and exactly what happened.

There are better ways to help yourself then to post and hope. I'll be very honest with you - over the past year and a half, I have seen very, very, VERY few new questions. The better able you are to search for answers, the more likely you'll find an answer to your question. Use Google search specific to the joomla.org domain in addition to the forum search.

Take full advantage of all printed material - there is a User's Guide, there is a Absolute Newbie's Guide to Joomla, there are TONS of FAQs. The forum is WELL organized. Go into the section you need and check the stickies immediately inside of the forums.

Lastly, if you did all of those things and you posted your question clearly and you still don't get an answer after a COUPLE of days. Then add a post describing what ELSE you did in the couple of days since you first posted and describe what happened as a result of that effort. That is not a bump, IMO. That is additional information. It shows YOU are working on it and taking responsibility for your own problems. It clarifies your area of confusion.

Thanks for taking the time to describe your concern. You are not the first person in the community to feel this way. Maybe a bump should be allowed if a question sits there for a week? IDK. But, hopefully it makes a bit more sense why bumps aren't allowed and maybe you have a few extra pointers on how to be more successfully using the resources available here at Joomla!.

All the best,
Amy

[Kursat]

I'm posting this to gauge reaction from the community on the subject of 'bumping' (reposting a query to keep it visible).

I recently had my wrist slapped for bumping a query that I'd received no replies to. First I apologise for that, until then I didnt even know what bumping was.

The way I see it, bumping is symptomatic of a growing problem with the Joomla community.  The forum is a victim of its own success; so many people with so many questions. This being the case, what is someone to do when they get no answer? Sometimes this is because there is no answer; no one knows. But other times (and I suspect more often than not) it's because the rate of posting is so fast that it gets quickly buried below a mountain of other questions and is overlooked. The simple act of not logging in for a day or two means you miss many posts that maybe you could have helped with had they remained easily visible.

We're all trying hard to get to grips with Joomla and when you are inexperienced and get stuck you often have nowhere to go other than the forum.

My two-pence worth would be to say to allow bumping on posts that have received no reply because its helpful to those probably most in need of help.  In an ideal world, would it be possible to structure the forum so that nil-reply posts stay high in the listings and then maybe get dropped if there's nothing after say a week?  By that means you increase the chances of your post being seen especially by those that do not log in everyday.

Hoping this post gets better than a nil reply

Thanks

But life is like that too talacrush, this forum is just the life.
Note :
For better, reliable, logical, reasonable and organized answer read Amy's post.

[talacrush]

Gosh ... Amy I'm impressed; thanks for your advice and perseverance in looking through my previous posts.

On the whole I've been doing most of the things you suggested but when it came to Captcha I'd already developed a largish site on my locahost and frankly was paranoid that if I implemented Captcha I'd create a whole bunch of problems that might undermine everything I'd done before. Maybe I'm being unfair on Captcha, but it got very mixed reviews from the exhalted to the scarily awful.

In essence my query was simple; is there an alternative to Captcha (and believe me I had looked around)? Having had not even a glimmer of a response I 'bumped' hoping that others might see it that hadn't before. The consequence was that I got told off for bumping followed by "Doesn't look like you did much searching..".  TBH that kind of response from a Global Moderator is not very helpful especially when I had looked hard for alternatives.

I'm very appreciative of your comments and advice. That's precisely the sort of help we need. As you suggested I've marked my previous posted 'solved' where appropriate; so obvious and useful !  As for the Global Moderator; please try to remember that we novices do the best we can and rebuking someone for not trying hard enough (especialy when its untrue) only serves to demoralise.

Oh btw .. the 13% was simply the proportion of nil-replies to total posts in one day in the General Questions section only. Probably unscientific but illustrative hopefully.

[AmyStephen]

lol! No problem! The more you are around, the more you will realize there are a lot of really helpful SMART volunteers here.

Dave - the "mean" global moderator (hehehe!) - is really a nice guy. His job is to enforce the rules - so - he has to tell you "no bumping" - because bumping is against the rules. Rebuking is a heavy word - it's easy to forget there is no "tone of voice" in posts. I've met Dave in person - he's in our Omaha Joomla! Users Group. He's very nice and funny and kind. He's from Nebraska, so, hey, he can't be all bad!

But, it sometimes does feel like there is no good way to proceed and reminding us of that on occasion does no harm at all.

Now - you can have multiple websites on your localhost. That way, when you try out extensions, you won't harm your "working" environment if things go pear shaped in a hurry.

I don't have good advice for your Captcha question. If you have questions and things get stuck for a couple of days, you can PM me and IF I have time, I'll try to help you along your way. And, if you see someone's post while you are looking around counting things and searching the forums - and you can answer it for someone, do it! You'll be amazed how much you learn when *you* start answering questions.

Then, maybe one day, you'll be rebuking newbies for bumping and cross-posting and not searching properly! OH - THE POWER!!!! hehehe!

All the best,
Amy

[MrRoyce]

I'm not a moderator, andI  don't have any problems with folks bumping their threads.  To me its at least some indication that the problem still exists.  The suggestion that the poster leave additional information or things they have tried is excellent.  Unfortunately, too many folks just post *bump* in hopes of getting a response.

If I'm scanning the forum and see a post that hasn't been answered, I'll note when it was written.  If it is more than a day old, I'll assume the poster found a solution but hadn't updated their post. 

[MMMedia]

This is more of a Sites & Infrastructure - Feedback/Information type thread so I am going to move it there.  Thanks for your suggestions.

[ivnj]

I just read through this.  I see all the points.  But then what if we were able to delete our own posts.  Not everyone's.  Just our own.  We could at least help clean up a little that way. 

As for the rest the problem is I always have problems there are not here so not searchable.  Not all the info is there when I search.  Some are but some a few every now and then are not.  So if there's no reply and I can't bump or repost then it's bad so to speak.  And speaking of clearity it's not that easy always to be that clear.  Or it's hard to know how to word things.  And BTW, I did use a screen shot when I asked for "Polls Only"

Thanks,
ivnj

[AmyStephen]

I So if there's no reply and I can't bump or repost then it's bad so to speak. 

Don't forget! There's always read the User's Guide or dig into the code!

One of the benefits of the no bumping rule is that it does force people to learn how to help themselves. In the end, that *is* the best answer. The forums are not designed to be a training facility and there are free user's guides and FAQs and books.

You just can't bump. No big deal.  Don't let it stop you!
Amy

[ivnj]

Fine but can we at least delete our own threads so they don't just sit there with no replys.

[aruba]

I'm posting this to gauge reaction from the community on the subject of 'bumping' (reposting a query to keep it visible).

I recently had my wrist slapped for bumping a query that I'd received no replies to. First I apologise for that, until then I didnt even know what bumping was.

The way I see it, bumping is symptomatic of a growing problem with the Joomla community.  The forum is a victim of its own success; so many people with so many questions. This being the case, what is someone to do when they get no answer? Sometimes this is because there is no answer; no one knows. But other times (and I suspect more often than not) it's because the rate of posting is so fast that it gets quickly buried below a mountain of other questions and is overlooked. The simple act of not logging in for a day or two means you miss many posts that maybe you could have helped with had they remained easily visible.

I think what I'm saying is that to have a blanket ban on bumping is not helpful to those that simply get no reply to a question. Just out of curiosity I checked yesterdays posts; 13% didnt get a reply. Who's to say whether that is a good or bad statistic, but the fact is those 13% are now stuck.  We're all trying hard to get to grips with Joomla and when you are inexperienced and get stuck you often have nowhere to go other than the forum.

My two-pence worth would be to say to allow bumping on posts that have received no reply because its helpful to those probably most in need of help.  In an ideal world, would it be possible to structure the forum so that nil-reply posts stay high in the listings and then maybe get dropped if there's nothing after say a week?  By that means you increase the chances of your post being seen especially by those that do not log in everyday.

Hoping this post gets better than a nil reply

Thanks

How many posts have YOU specifically sought out and tried to reply/help on?

Your experience in life if not Joomla would definately be helpful! say: The site showcase and other areas.

Everyone is a noobie in some things, but all can be helpful in ONE thing.

I must say, the search function in this forum (ALL FORUMS for that matter) is rather poor

To get around that problem, I recommend GOOGLING the forum directly (see the "Advanced search option for GOOGLE...use the SITE option where you search only for results from forums.joomla.org)

The ten minutes of real work you have to do, is sometimes preferable to Posting, waiting 5 hours (or, God forbid, a whole day, in nail biting suspense) before returning to 'bump' a post

[ivnj]

Yes but what if say nobody has ever asked your question before?  Or you're asking something that has never been done before.

[aruba]

To be honest. Novelty is rather rare on the web.. the great majority of the questions are rephrasing of the SAME questions from time immemorial and PEOPLE FAILING/REFUSING TO READ the stickies at the top of the forum!

For instance, I was set to post a question:

"What is wrong with the GPL forums? Why cant I reply???"

Until I read the sticky which explained that responding to other posts was turned off as it had degenerated into flame baiting and personal Off Topic responses on that passionate issue.


The other point is... if your question is so novel and new, then THAT is a reason for the delay in response!

I agree, that a Forum is the WORST place to extract knowledge, its geared for maintaining running CONVERSATIONS (just think how painful the extensions directory would be if it were implemented as a series of forum threads and topics!)

What I used to do, is watch the forum for a while, and look at the people who were often the most recent posters. I would PM one of them and ask for advice - unless their sig said "LEAVE ME ALONE-NO PM's DAMMIT"

[ivnj]

All I wanted was to make was a blank page with 5 or 6 polls on it and no other content or menus.

[brad]

All I wanted was to make was a blank page with 5 or 6 polls on it and no other content or menus.

You post has been moved to the correct part of the forum. I am closing this thread now, no need to hijack it.