Hello all,
I think we need a "certified extensions" area. In effect, developers of PCM's (plugins,components and mambots) should pay a fee to Joomla core developers to have those developers test and certify the PCM -Before- they are allowed to post these extensions for download.
Also should be considered is how these PCM's interact with the top PCM in all cats such as Community Builder, etc... and "roadmaps" shown to give a quick path to those with interest in doing a certain type website.
For example, a membership website might want to allow access to forums, blogs, content, downloads, media, etc... depending on their membership level. Such a roadmap might be:
1. Install latest stable Joomla
2. Install the AEC component
3. Install CB component
4. Install JoomlaBoard
5. Install JACL (a PITA)
6. And a list of patches that would be needed and in what order.
This way with published roadmaps and certified PCM's a person could more quickly and easily get their site up and running with a certain level of confidence that they won't spend a lot of time hacking files and focus on adding their content.
Thoughts...
We need a certified extensions area.
Re: We need a certified extensions area.
I have read the other posts. This is why I suggested:
1. Paid inclusion ~ that solves the resources issue
2. Roadmaps will give you a path to follow ( we dont have to be all inclusive, but to start the journey you have to put one of your feet forward ).
3. Start with the most popular i.e., CB appears to be a must for most and work backwards.
Hence I suggest that we step back, take a moment, and get to a point that is stable before releasing the next latest & greatest. ONLY exception would be security patches as found/needed.
This is not a security issue for me at this point as in the other post you pointed out, per se, but rather because I see the need for a clear deliniation in which to accomplish certain task when compared to the needs of your 'clients' even of the client is yourself.
The customer is always right so they say, but even with my years of programming experience I have found this task to take much longer than I would like (and I am not done yet as I wait on "Support" from the developers of the Zend encoded Pro JACL Plus component - day 3 now even after paying for access and install), especially when depending on others who fall short even after you pay them for access to the files and/or support.
Plus, with developer paid inclusion this would help to get the point across that incomplete programming will not be acceptable to the Joomla community.
I support open source whole-heartedly though what I have seen on the other sites, from registration to "Chartered Membership Required" to get the latest files others are bringing down the whole and leaving many persons without a running site and with a hole in their wallet. I, as for myself would rather pay a small fee to be assured that what I have just downloaded will actually work. This doesn't mean I am against open source, as one would (and SHOULD) still have access to the codebase to make any mods, if needed or desired, but there needs to be a stable point from which one could start.
When you get in your car to go to work you know what paths to take, you dont just get to a road and flip a coin to decide whether or not to turn and hope it works out for the best.
This would also get rid of the finger-pointing and buck-passing that I have seen so much of since lurking this and the others forums.
-OR- you could make it required that PCM developers provide their code to release "pre-packaged" solutions with certain modules pre-installed. I am sure some polls over the next couple months would help you decide which of these packages should be included. Just take the top 5 and go from there.
Leave the Core as-is, for now, and focus on helping people get where they are going.
1. Paid inclusion ~ that solves the resources issue
2. Roadmaps will give you a path to follow ( we dont have to be all inclusive, but to start the journey you have to put one of your feet forward ).
3. Start with the most popular i.e., CB appears to be a must for most and work backwards.
Hence I suggest that we step back, take a moment, and get to a point that is stable before releasing the next latest & greatest. ONLY exception would be security patches as found/needed.
This is not a security issue for me at this point as in the other post you pointed out, per se, but rather because I see the need for a clear deliniation in which to accomplish certain task when compared to the needs of your 'clients' even of the client is yourself.
The customer is always right so they say, but even with my years of programming experience I have found this task to take much longer than I would like (and I am not done yet as I wait on "Support" from the developers of the Zend encoded Pro JACL Plus component - day 3 now even after paying for access and install), especially when depending on others who fall short even after you pay them for access to the files and/or support.
Plus, with developer paid inclusion this would help to get the point across that incomplete programming will not be acceptable to the Joomla community.
I support open source whole-heartedly though what I have seen on the other sites, from registration to "Chartered Membership Required" to get the latest files others are bringing down the whole and leaving many persons without a running site and with a hole in their wallet. I, as for myself would rather pay a small fee to be assured that what I have just downloaded will actually work. This doesn't mean I am against open source, as one would (and SHOULD) still have access to the codebase to make any mods, if needed or desired, but there needs to be a stable point from which one could start.
When you get in your car to go to work you know what paths to take, you dont just get to a road and flip a coin to decide whether or not to turn and hope it works out for the best.
This would also get rid of the finger-pointing and buck-passing that I have seen so much of since lurking this and the others forums.
-OR- you could make it required that PCM developers provide their code to release "pre-packaged" solutions with certain modules pre-installed. I am sure some polls over the next couple months would help you decide which of these packages should be included. Just take the top 5 and go from there.
Leave the Core as-is, for now, and focus on helping people get where they are going.
Re: We need a certified extensions area.
InletDude wrote:I have read the other posts. This is why I suggested:
1. Paid inclusion ~ that solves the resources issue
Who do you pay. Every member of the Joomla Development Working Group is a volunteer. Joomla does not pay anyone
Re: We need a certified extensions area.
The developers posting the PCM would have to pay the inclusion fee, to a Joomla slush fund, for dedicated testing proir to inclusion in the extensions area. This money could be disbursed to those, in a round-robin fashion without favor, who would have the skills, time and desire to do the testing, for hosting the Joomla site, or even to "buy-out" those commercial PCM which could make it eventually into the Core.
I am sure most core developers would greatly appreciate a small bonus from time-to-time to take that special someone out for a show and dinner. Atta-boys and back-pats only go so far after all is said and done and most, I assume, have bills to pay, school loans and/or families to support.
AS I had to pay for access to, for example, to get the JACL latest code and installation (still waiting) then Joomla should also benefit. This would put them into another, specially marked extensions category where persons downloading would have a "reasonable expectation" that the code would work and have a posted map which to guide them..do we really need 63 banner rotators when 2-3 tested ones would make up the great majority of most persons needs.
So, to start maybe Joomla could host those extensions which require payment and extract a small processing fee which could be used also for this purpose and keep it all under one roof. Make the paid PCM developers use the Joomla forum and require questions to be answered within say, a 48hr time frame. If you had access to the JACL Chartered Members area you would see that something should be done. Sorting through all the components and patches available on that site alone took a whole day to understand the 4 files I actually needed. Don't get me started on the 15 PAGES of error message printed out for a PAID component.
For now we rely on votes and comments to decide. This system could easily be skewed by those without scruples to make it seem that the PCM is what they need, is working, has been tested, etc...
I for myself appreciate quick response even if it is to point out I am an idiot, or what I am asking has been solved. Even moving this thread into the more appropriate category was done quickly and professionally, Brian
, and these things should be rewarded.
Regards-
PS - If it seems that I am picking on JACL the reason is I paid for access to the Chartered Members area, Only 2 questions have been asked there over the last three days,one mine, and no replies to either I have seen. Even allowing for them being 12hrs ahead of me (US Eastern time vs. Malaysion time) and language issues (I only know american english, spanish and some german ~ I am lucky having had two parents both teachers) it has been too long. I have not made a final decision on whether or not this actually fits my needs as install is not yet complete, even after sending of my own volition extra funds to get this done over the weekend it seems as if the developer does not actually care. Unlike here. No, not even a reply to state what their normal working hours are and when or if I can expect to have this work actually completed. One other thing also occured there...but I will hold off on that until all chances have been given, I re-review my logs, and I then post my vote. When I post my vote it will be on the facts as experienced and not because "cousin joe", or whoever, needs some help. I am not saying that happens, but we could both agree that it is possible can we not?
PSS - to solve the permissions errors noted above I am planning a PERL program to recurse the dirs/files, get the current permissions, log into a file, chmod to 0777 to allow patch then reverse process to re-claim security after PCM install. I am planning to release the code to this forum when done. As I haven't the time myself to do all of this I will have to pay and expect no return but will most likely be quicker, less hassle and more secure than waiting on 'the others'.
I am sure most core developers would greatly appreciate a small bonus from time-to-time to take that special someone out for a show and dinner. Atta-boys and back-pats only go so far after all is said and done and most, I assume, have bills to pay, school loans and/or families to support.
AS I had to pay for access to, for example, to get the JACL latest code and installation (still waiting) then Joomla should also benefit. This would put them into another, specially marked extensions category where persons downloading would have a "reasonable expectation" that the code would work and have a posted map which to guide them..do we really need 63 banner rotators when 2-3 tested ones would make up the great majority of most persons needs.
So, to start maybe Joomla could host those extensions which require payment and extract a small processing fee which could be used also for this purpose and keep it all under one roof. Make the paid PCM developers use the Joomla forum and require questions to be answered within say, a 48hr time frame. If you had access to the JACL Chartered Members area you would see that something should be done. Sorting through all the components and patches available on that site alone took a whole day to understand the 4 files I actually needed. Don't get me started on the 15 PAGES of error message printed out for a PAID component.
For now we rely on votes and comments to decide. This system could easily be skewed by those without scruples to make it seem that the PCM is what they need, is working, has been tested, etc...
I for myself appreciate quick response even if it is to point out I am an idiot, or what I am asking has been solved. Even moving this thread into the more appropriate category was done quickly and professionally, Brian
, and these things should be rewarded.Regards-
PS - If it seems that I am picking on JACL the reason is I paid for access to the Chartered Members area, Only 2 questions have been asked there over the last three days,one mine, and no replies to either I have seen. Even allowing for them being 12hrs ahead of me (US Eastern time vs. Malaysion time) and language issues (I only know american english, spanish and some german ~ I am lucky having had two parents both teachers) it has been too long. I have not made a final decision on whether or not this actually fits my needs as install is not yet complete, even after sending of my own volition extra funds to get this done over the weekend it seems as if the developer does not actually care. Unlike here. No, not even a reply to state what their normal working hours are and when or if I can expect to have this work actually completed. One other thing also occured there...but I will hold off on that until all chances have been given, I re-review my logs, and I then post my vote. When I post my vote it will be on the facts as experienced and not because "cousin joe", or whoever, needs some help. I am not saying that happens, but we could both agree that it is possible can we not?
PSS - to solve the permissions errors noted above I am planning a PERL program to recurse the dirs/files, get the current permissions, log into a file, chmod to 0777 to allow patch then reverse process to re-claim security after PCM install. I am planning to release the code to this forum when done. As I haven't the time myself to do all of this I will have to pay and expect no return but will most likely be quicker, less hassle and more secure than waiting on 'the others'.
Re: We need a certified extensions area.
Being a volunteer organization, this will be almost impossible to implement. Where does the payment go? Would this only go to the testers? There are numerous people who spend hours and hours on other parts of Joomla, would they receive compensation as well (translators, people helping out on the forum, setting up international communities, setting up Joomla!days) ? The idea has merit, but will be impossible to implement without changing the fundamentals of the current Joomla! project.
Antonie de Wilde - Forum admin
