Question about "bumping" on the Joomla Forum

[webgyrl]

Hi,

mod edit: brad Removed Private Message


My question is:

If no one answers a question you have posted, do you just start a new thread after a certain period of time? To me this seems silly because if there is already a topic in existence then the new thread would just take up room. What the best etiquette to deal with this on the forum, but still bring attention to your query??

Plus I really don't understand the problem with bringing a legitimate question up when it slides down a few pages with no answer. Everyone here knows no one really reads past the 1st or 2nd page. I can understand if you bump something 5 times in a day or even a few time in general.. but what is the big deal with bumping something once? Please explain this to me.

So what's a person to do in this situation?

And also, are there any other user to user boards where one can get help with Joomla. These boards are not as helpful as they once used to be for some reason.

I'm not picking a fight here, just asking a question.

Thanks for any help!

[brad]

Mod note: Thread moved to correct forum.


I do recall, we have had this same discussion with you before. The rules are tried and tested, and I suggest you follow them.
Many of the questions you are bumping are ones that are asked and answered many times over. You might like to read the FAQ, User manual, and resources on http://help.joomla.org to begin with, as well as using the search function.

I can't say for sure why people are not answering your questions, but there is always the option of paying someone to help you if you are not familiar enough with Joomla.

[RussW]

@webgyrl

I have reviewed your post and provided some idea's for you to look in to....  The fact that you really didn't didn't provide much diagnostic information and stacked three different questions in to the same post, probably scared off some folks from entering your post, may I suggest in future that maybe you try a little more troubleshooting first and provide even simple things like your Joomla! version, and major components in use, what you have tried to resolve the issue already. It will help. 

Also, the General Forums are always busy, and contrary to popular belief, I know that many of the folks here actually scroll back many pages before they start looking at posts, not starting at the top pages, in an effort to ensure that as many posts are answered as possible, even if they aren't in the top pages.

I hope this helps somewhat, as you have determined from Brad's posts and the moderator actions, bumping threads is not the approach to "win friends and influence moderators or other users"

As for other boards?? Non that I know of that are Joomla! centric, filled with extremely useful information, up to date and as vibrant as these boards, sorry.... 

In recent months, all of the boards have been busy, especially with the aggressive release of Joomal! 1.5 to the world, much of the activity has been directed toward the 1.5 boards. Unfortunately, it will be that way for a little while yet, during the final testing stages, but I do assure you, there are still many of us that are trying to continue to work the J! 1.0 regularly.

[AmyStephen]

Webgyrl -
I am going to tease you a bit here. The fact that you are asking this question tells me something. You are not searching the forums first!  If you had, you would have found several discussions of this very question, including this discussion.

It's a rule that makes sense but frustrates people until they think about the big picture. Consider some of the comments in that thread, but first, take yourself out of the picture and think about the broader aspects of the bump.

There are a lot of things you can do in the Joomla! forums, but, you cannot, under any circumstances whatsoever, Do the Bump. It was bad enough the first time. See how it all makes sense, now? 

With respect,
Amy

BTW - I had a hard time with the rules, at first, too. I remember after several times being told I wasn't following the rules asking that the rules be published in a more prominent place on the page. Then, I was told about the "Rules" button at the top of the page. 

[brad]

Now that your thread has had ample time to receive a reply, I am going to edit out the private PM (private message) that you went and posted in a public forum, despite you still being in discussions with pe7er about it as well.

[webgyrl]

I can't say for sure why people are not answering your questions, but there is always the option of paying someone to help you if you are not familiar enough with Joomla.

I'd really prefer to learn so that I can manage the issues myself. That is why I visit peer 2 peer forums.

Thanks for your answer.

[webgyrl]

@webgyrl

I have reviewed your post and provided some idea's for you to look in to....  The fact that you really didn't didn't provide much diagnostic information and stacked three different questions in to the same post, probably scared off some folks from entering your post, may I suggest in future that maybe you try a little more troubleshooting first and provide even simple things like your Joomla! version, and major components in use, what you have tried to resolve the issue already. It will help. 

Also, the General Forums are always busy, and contrary to popular belief, I know that many of the folks here actually scroll back many pages before they start looking at posts, not starting at the top pages, in an effort to ensure that as many posts are answered as possible, even if they aren't in the top pages.

I hope this helps somewhat, as you have determined from Brad's posts and the moderator actions, bumping threads is not the approach to "win friends and influence moderators or other users"

As for other boards?? Non that I know of that are Joomla! centric, filled with extremely useful information, up to date and as vibrant as these boards, sorry.... 

In recent months, all of the boards have been busy, especially with the aggressive release of Joomal! 1.5 to the world, much of the activity has been directed toward the 1.5 boards. Unfortunately, it will be that way for a little while yet, during the final testing stages, but I do assure you, there are still many of us that are trying to continue to work the J! 1.0 regularly.

I tried to provide as much diagnostic info as possible and explain the problems thoroughly. I do not know exactly what diagnostic info would be necessary in this case. I explained the problems and what I had done to try to correct them. I did as much troubleshooting as I could. When what I tried failed, I came here. I spent hours and hours rebuilding things 2 times and I did mention that in my post. I did fail to list what components I had installed, and J version and now I know to do that. Thank you for that info. What other info would have been helpful? I'm here to learn, so if there is a better way to describe an issue then I am all ears.

As for other boards, that's what I figured. This seems to be 'the place', logically.

I do know the boards have been busier than ever, so I guess this is just a natural thing that some topics are not addressed. Which is fine. The boards are free and help should not be expected. I just sometimes feel the topics get drowned out so fast that people don't see them. Hence why I will note if I am still having the same problem. pe7er PMed me with some very helpful info. I was not aware that updating with the fact that one was still experiencing the problems was a bump, not now I understand the bumping issue more clearly now. Each board has different standards and I post on a lot of different boards. This one is just different, which is great. Just have to learn the ropes better.

I put all the questions in the same post for a number of reasons
1.) so as not to take up space on the board with multiple questions ( thought I'd get in trouble actually if I put them in separate topics!)
2.) because I had a suspicion that perhaps the server move hosed Joomla somehow and I wanted to put all the 'symptoms' in one post in case someone saw a pattern and could help diagnose the problem. I thought I was being thorough, but I guess not.

I totally understand bumping is not cool. But I did not think what I had done was bumping. But now i know better.

Anyway, this is all good info to know and I hope to do things in the proper way.

One thing I will say is that I am awfully confused by the boards these days. Even this topic was in the wrong forum and Brad had to move it and I feel badly about that. I searched for a 'forum issues' forum, but there was none, so I posted in the General forum. I could not have even foudn this forum if I tried. I can't seem to see where the child boards are. I know there was some re-structuring done recently. Is there a better way to view these board to see what the parent and child forums are? It's confusing for someone who does not come here every day. Any ideas on that?

Thank you Russ also for taking the time to answer my post with the issues. I am actually going thru the info you gave me now to see what is up with it and if I can fix it.

[webgyrl]

Now that your thread has had ample time to receive a reply, I am going to edit out the private PM (private message) that you went and posted in a public forum, despite you still being in discussions with pe7er about it as well.

Thanks brad, I appreciate that.

[webgyrl]

Webgyrl -
I am going to tease you a bit here. The fact that you are asking this question tells me something. You are not searching the forums first!  If you had, you would have found several discussions of this very question, including this discussion.

It's a rule that makes sense but frustrates people until they think about the big picture. Consider some of the comments in that thread, but first, take yourself out of the picture and think about the broader aspects of the bump.

There are a lot of things you can do in the Joomla! forums, but, you cannot, under any circumstances whatsoever, Do the Bump. It was bad enough the first time. See how it all makes sense, now? 

With respect,
Amy

BTW - I had a hard time with the rules, at first, too. I remember after several times being told I wasn't following the rules asking that the rules be published in a more prominent place on the page. Then, I was told about the "Rules" button at the top of the page. 

Hi Amy-

Well you are right on this one. I did not search bumping, I was too frustrated at that point. So my apologies. Things have changed a lot here in the last year it seems. Which is great. Evolution is necessary.

I do make it a rule to search before I post a question. But a lot of the times the things i find don't necessarily address my problem. And lately that seems to be more common. I'm not sure why. Lately my searches don't bring about a whole lot of great results. Is there a topic you could refer me to on doing searches here on the J forums. Maybe that will help. Maybe I am using too many words or too few? No idea!

I've got no problem with rules. I guess I haven't read them lately (I can't find things lately since the board structure changed... see my response to Russ), and maybe some rules changed. I just go by general board etiquette... and I know to say 'bump' is bad... but I did not think what I did was a bump. It was just a statement that the problem was not resolved. But perhaps my wording was sparse and that is a problem I have had lately due to my time just being limited. Too much to do and not enough time, a common problem!

Anyway, as I said this is all great as I am learning and learning is always a great thing. I appreciate you taking time to reply.

[Wendy]

I know there was some re-structuring done recently. Is there a better way to view these board to see what the parent and child forums are? It's confusing for someone who does not come here every day. Any ideas on that?

Child boards are usually listed within the parent board, visible on the forum index page. 

For example:

Joomla! Coding 101[This is the parent board]
Discussion and education for beginner / novice programmers interested in embarking on the development process to take advantage of the extensible nature of the Joomla! CMS.
Moderators: tjay, bascherz, Rogue4ngel, seadap, matthewhayashida
Child Boards: Joombie Tools of the Trade, Joombie Coding Q/A, Joombie Think Tank, Joombie Developer Lab [These are the child boards]

This board (Sites and Infrastructure - feedback and information) is not a child board.  It's a parent board... a childless parent board.  It is called S&I because that is the official working group title for the group of people who manage the forum and other Joomla.org sites.  I can see how that's a little misleading if you're not familiar with the WG titles.  However, now you know. Right?   You'll just have to read the board descriptions to make sure you're in the right place. 

To make navigation through the forums easier you do have the option of minimizing certain areas.  Such are:  Other forums, Joomla Development, Joomla Working groups and International Zone.  If you don't use those boards, just click the little triangle beside the title and they fold up so that you don't have to scroll through them each time to find the place you want to be.  That might make things less confusing, I know it did for me at first.  There's a lot of boards here, and it can be overwhelming.

Is there a topic you could refer me to on doing searches here on the J forums. Maybe that will help. Maybe I am using too many words or too few? No idea!

Search issues are common thing here unfortunately.  There is a solution in Amy's post here: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... msg1026735

Try this Google utility that our friendly forum administrators put together for us - http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=00762 ... igrppcfurc.

I've got no problem with rules. I guess I haven't read them lately (I can't find things lately since the board structure changed... see my response to Russ), and maybe some rules changed.

The rules have not been changed since December 26, 2006.  Even then, AFAIK, it was a minor edit. There is a "Rules" button at the top of the forum index page (Right beside the search button) so that they are accessible at all times from where ever you are on the forum.

Thanks for taking the time to try and understand the rules better.  As Brad said, they work well here  

[webgyrl]

WRobinson: Thank you for all that excellent info! The titles of some of the boards, I will admit, are confusing. I never would have thought to post my bump question in this forum, for example. I guess I have to take more time to familiarize myself with the boards. To be honest, it's hard to do that when time is of an issue and searching is painful at times. I will review the threads and info you linked for me. This is all very helpful.

There are a lot of features the average user just wouldn't find naturally. Like this for example:

If you don't use those boards, just click the little triangle beside the title and they fold up so that you don't have to scroll through them each time to find the place you want to be.  That might make things less confusing, I know it did for me at first.  There's a lot of boards here, and it can be overwhelming.

I never would have know that if you hadn't mentioned it. This feature would be incredibly helpful. Is there a tutorial on how to even use the boards? That would be great.

I did read the Rules at the top of the board when I first joined. But the bumping thing is vague. What might be a useless one liner to one person, is not to another. Plus there is that sort of unknown thing of when is it OK to post something to push the topic up if there is no reply... and i don't just mean the word 'bump'. But Amy linked to an excellent discussion on this. I think the bumping thing needs to be revisited and clarified for topics that have no responses within a certain period of time. But again, this is not my board and things are done for the reasons the board owners feel are justified. So I totally understand that.

Thanks for taking time to reply!

[brad]

I never would have know that if you hadn't mentioned it. This feature would be incredibly helpful. Is there a tutorial on how to even use the boards? That would be great.

.. the button before the rules... http://forum.joomla.org/index.php?action=help

[webgyrl]

I never would have know that if you hadn't mentioned it. This feature would be incredibly helpful. Is there a tutorial on how to even use the boards? That would be great.

.. the button before the rules... http://forum.joomla.org/index.php?action=help

Thank you Brad. It doesn't mention anything that I can see about the fact you can 'hide' some forums. Is there a more indepth tutorial for SMF? Maybe over at SMF... I will try there.

[AmyStephen]

Webgyrl -

With nearing 150,000 forum users, *we* as forum users have to adapt and not expect the rules to be adapted for us. Just from a practical standpoint, consider the challenge and frustration to the forum group if each of the nearly 150,000 forum users required this type of explanation and debate and further information and consideration. As a warning, you have now joined my very exclusive group of users who have had a button pointed out for us. That's a sign it's time to read and study what's available, not question, but rather conform to the way things are done, and to be sensitive to impact here. The resources used in this thread for these types of questions are put to better service helping others learn Joomla!.

With sincere respect from someone else who has traveled the same path, just adapt, it works!
Amy 

[webgyrl]

Webgyrl -

With nearing 150,000 forum users, *we* as forum users have to adapt and not expect the rules to be adapted for us. Just from a practical standpoint, consider the challenge and frustration to the forum group if each of the nearly 150,000 forum users required this type of explanation and debate and further information and consideration. As a warning, you have now joined my very exclusive group of users who have had a button pointed out for us. That's a sign it's time to read and study what's available, not question, but rather conform to the way things are done, and to be sensitive to impact here. The resources used in this thread for these types of questions are put to better service helping others learn Joomla!.

With sincere respect from someone else who has traveled the same path, just adapt, it works!
Amy 

Amy,

With sincere respect to your answers... I am a person who asks questions first before adapting. Adapting blindly is no way to learn.

As I said, all the info is much appreciated. But if I have questions I feel it's my right to ask them, even if they go unanswered.

I hope this clarifies things.

[AmyStephen]

Amy,

With sincere respect to your answers... I am a person who asks questions first before adapting. Adapting blindly is no way to learn.

As I said, all the info is much appreciated. But if I have questions I feel it's my right to ask them, even if they go unanswered.

I hope this clarifies things.

Provided you also respect people's "rights" to be annoyed by having to point out the obvious or defend what most people simply accept, then I agree.

As with all things, it comes down to how much does it matter? And, are we asking for our fair share? Or more than is necessary? Blindly adapting sounds pretty dangerous in some situations. But, here in the forums, adapting to the rules simply preserves time and energy for those volunteering to reach as many people who need assistance, as possible.

We do *always* have the choice to not use the forum resources if we do not agree with the rules. In the end, that is what our rights actually are. To accept something offered freely, as it is offered, or to reject the offering. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm done with this now, so there is no need to respond to me. Have fun with Joomla!,
Amy

[brad]

Ok, let's lock this one...

Thanks for watching.