What happened to the forum today???

Post by **mcsmom** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:42 pm

Today I had to go looking for some posts from when this forum was still on the opensourcematters.org website in 2005.

No problem whatsoever.

Thank you so much for this achievement. Moving over a million posts and over 260,000 threads, keeping the urls valid, keeping the information available and accessible, even giving us our PMs, what an amazing job has been done by everyone involved.

Kellanved · Post by **Kellanved** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:53 pm

Diri, I really don't understand your reaction. By now this forum seems to be very snappy to me. Unless your test forum has several hundred consecutive sessions, 500 subforums and over a million post, there can be no comparison.

diri · Post by **diri** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:37 pm

Kellanved,

I watch popular software since long time. phBB belongs to this species. I'm pretty sure it will be fixed and improved here at this site very much (as far as possible).

I do comparisons while installing different products on one and same server in same environment.

Than I create dummy content. Afterwards I compare server load and other issues. Test in hosted environment is very critical for not having "clean room" environment. One can not run one test only to say "it behaves this way" or "it behaves that way". To ensure to have proper data I use as much automatization as possible.

OTOH I don't sit on "popular software". I use exotic software and new products as well. When I see them being developed in a way I can follow there will be more than one test sequence.

But, and now we are at business, I have to go very much deeper:
My customers want to see facts when they have some names of products in mind because of popularity. Than I install "their" product and product of my choice in same environment. Preferred environment for those demonstrations is customer's environment (be it dedicated server or hosted or inhouse).

This demonstration without my personal hacks will be my proof of concept. In business we have some issues like time and costs. The more secure a product is, the more easy and secure it is to add and remove extensions, the less is effort which is written "time and money" in business.

The other side is "resource" of server. This takes money as well or one might run a lame site. You can't compare a dedicated server with hosted environment. Hosted means non-calculatable server load without chance of influence. Except of tests in uncommon environments (platforms like OS/2 which is still a business case for me) you will see my hardcore tests there to be able to demonstrate it to my customers. Hosters are not always my friends for this because I start loading i.e. Typo3 and a test for another product on very same server to have a basic load.

What's wrong with it?

Result not according your oppinion? Tough luck. Sorry. I accept change here and have to live with it when I want to support Joomla! further on. Tough luck for me. Nevertheless I compare what's available in opensource and proprietary.

Highway of Life · Post by **Highway of Life** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:59 pm

diri wrote:Im not allowed to tell something negative but, here some comparison between this forum main page and main page of a forum currently in test by me in hosted environment:

phBB : test-forum = 20 : 1 in best case.

Test performed with "ap -c10 -n10" (apache profiler).

This means nothing.
You’ve not even provided a valid test case to prove any results.

Also, I’m not familiar with a product called "phBB".

According to the Joomla! forum admins, phpBB3 is and has been lighter on server resources than SMF was.
They also happen to be running on "real" data, no light tests, it’s all real right here, over 1.2 million posts and 173,000+ users.

diri · Post by **diri** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:15 pm

Highway of Life wrote:
diri wrote:Im not allowed to tell something negative but, here some comparison between this forum main page and main page of a forum currently in test by me in hosted environment:

phBB : test-forum = 20 : 1 in best case.

Test performed with "ap -c10 -n10" (apache profiler).
This means nothing.

make it -c100 -n100 or more and tell me more about such tests in case it really means nothing.

Highway of Life wrote: You’ve not even provided a valid test case to prove any results.

How should this be possible for me?

I don't want to offend you but, in case you are a programmer or administrator you should know about having several informations first to give real results.

I wrote it in last posting:
Real comparison takes place in same environment. No hacks, no patches. Set beast up, put a reasonable amount of data in it (100.000 data entries at least on a light system (little RAM, slow CPU, ...)) and go.

Most trivial test is apache profiler which nevertheless gives a first impression about user's experience.

In case you don't believe me - try it for yourself. The way you talk you have such tools at hand.

Highway of Life · Post by **Highway of Life** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:22 pm

diri wrote:make it -c100 -n100 or more and tell me more about such tests in case it really means nothing.

No, the comparison means nothing, not the method.

diri wrote:How should this be possible for me?

It’s simple, if you want to prove a point, provide a test case. If you can’t provide a test case and prove your point, then you don’t have anything to stand by. That is why I’m requesting a test case.

diri wrote:I don't want to offend you but, in case you are a programmer or administrator you should know about having several informations first to give real results.

I wrote it in last posting:
Real comparison takes place in same environment. No hacks, no patches. Set beast up, put a reasonable amount of data in it (100.000 data entries at least on a light system (little RAM, slow CPU, ...)) and go.

Most trivial test is apache profiler which nevertheless gives a first impression about user's experience.

In case you don't believe me - try it for yourself. The way you talk you have such tools at hand.

Indeed I can, but you must provide a test case to verify your information, or your result means nothing.

brad · Post by **brad** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:26 pm

In case you missed it, we're not returning to SMF.

phpbb3 is here to stay. We feel this is the right choice for the majority, if you disagree, that is fine, no amount of complaining is going to bring SMF back, or change our minds about the right choice we made to use phpbb3.

diri · Post by **diri** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:39 pm

Brad, JFI:

diri wrote: I accept change here and have to live with it when I want to support Joomla! further on. Tough luck for me. Nevertheless I compare what's available in opensource and proprietary.

Terp · Post by **Terp** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:49 am

brad wrote:In case you missed it, we're not returning to SMF.

phpbb3 is here to stay. We feel this is the right choice for the majority, if you disagree, that is fine, no amount of complaining is going to bring SMF back, or change our minds about the right choice we made to use phpbb3.

...but...but....but...Diri isn't happy!?! Please migrate the forums back to SMF for him, please.

I am equally pissed, though...that no J1.0.x bridge exists for some of the best forums I have ever used - phpbb3.

goodman123 · Post by **goodman123** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:01 pm

you got married to a beautiful wife. the more you looked at her, the less beautiful she became. then you divorced and married an ugly wife. the more you look at your new wife the less ugly she becomes. now the next step is to have a child, and that is a bridge between joomla and phphbb with cb support.
forget about fireboard, because it is too simple (no mods yet). to avoid performance problems, i think the best is to use different pieces of software (joomla, drupal, phpbb, etc) all together.

Highway of Life · Post by **Highway of Life** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:39 am

goodman123 wrote:you got married to a beautiful wife. the more you looked at her, the less beautiful she became.

Ewww... that's a terrible standard for a relationship. :P
BTW, you have heard of RokBridge, right?

--oOo--

/me waits patiently for a test case.

tusker · Post by **tusker** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:34 am

goodman123 wrote: to avoid performance problems, i think the best is to use different pieces of software (joomla, drupal, phpbb, etc) all together.

That is not easy always, that may end your beautiful relationship with an ugly divorce. It is like a Filipino marrying a pygmy and expecting a Punjabi child.

Kenski · Post by **Kenski** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:15 pm

I have to say I am impressed with the technical upgrade to the Joomla forum, but I am also frustrated.... While the interface on this phpbb3 upgrade is technically admirable, it is also not particularly user-friendly--which defeats the purpose of an upgrade no matter how snazzy that upgrade may be in the developer's eyes--and contradicts the standards the Joomla! team has worked so hard to establish.

In the previous SMF version of the board, I could search for a solution in the forum's front page search box with a few key words and find several potential solutions to a problem in more than one category. Given the myriad of possible configurations and environments that Joomla! can be installed on, there is no single category in a support forum that can lead to the solution to many conjectural Joomla! problems. Often in the past, I've found just the right solution in a place on the forum I wouldn't think to look in simply because it showed up in a search across the entire forum.

And also, just by clicking on topics in other categories that didn't specifically relate to the solution I was looking for, I've learned many things about Joomla! I wasn't expecting to learn--and was glad I took the time to click. The forum has been a wonderful resource until now. There was an organic fluidity to the SMF version that is entirely missing in the phpbb3 upgrade. Forgive me if I sound harsh, but I think you've sacrificed a valuable element of the SMF version in favor of rigor and security. More often than not, I find myself uninstalling extensions because I cannot find the support I'm looking for since the phpbb3 upgrade. The opposite was true with the SMF version. (Yes, I know that most of the major extensions have their own forums on their home pages, but let's be frank here: the Joomla! forum is the primary resource web developers turn to, even in the case of Community Builder or VirtueMart.)

Since the installation of the phpbb3 version, I frequently find that search results are unhelpful because the parameters of the results are constricted so much that they are frequently irrelevant, or the results simply display a list of responses for the same thread... often over and over again (i.e., I entered in the Joomla 1.5 Extensions Plugin board the search terms "video tag" and what came up was a page mostly listing all the responses to just two threads--"Re: Video doesnt (sic) show - Only the tag...." & "Re: Allvideos Reloaded"--which did nothing to support me in finding a solution for my own issue. I've tried other search terms, and they all came up with nearly the same results).

Is there any way you can include a search box up at the front of the board that will allow a user to search the entire forum and not just one specific category? Is there any way to delete the duplicate results so users don't have to waste their time clicking on what turns out to be another response to the same thread?

All in all, you've done an impressive job with this upgrade, but I do hope you have not forgotten that the end-result is to support your community.

Respectfully submitted,

Ken

Post by **tydust** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:38 pm

Ken, that's been done, and it works now. It's not a box, but look to the very right of your screen when you are on the front page of the forum. Next to Logout, Forum Rules, is Search.

Brad announced that it is now 100% indexed and functioning better than ever, in this forum, last night.
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=270146

darb · Post by **darb** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:31 pm

Terp wrote:
brad wrote:In case you missed it, we're not returning to SMF.

phpbb3 is here to stay. We feel this is the right choice for the majority, if you disagree, that is fine, no amount of complaining is going to bring SMF back, or change our minds about the right choice we made to use phpbb3.

...but...but....but...Diri isn't happy!?! Please migrate the forums back to SMF for him, please.

I am equally pissed, though...that no J1.0.x bridge exists for some of the best forums I have ever used - phpbb3.

Not tried CBconnector ? http://www.cbconnector.com but that with CB

darb · Post by **darb** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:34 pm

tusker wrote:
goodman123 wrote: to avoid performance problems, i think the best is to use different pieces of software (joomla, drupal, phpbb, etc) all together.
That is not easy always, that may end your beautiful relationship with an ugly divorce. It is like a Filipino marrying a pygmy and expecting a Punjabi child.

Depends on who is marry who...lol If George Bush marries Nelson Mandela you cant expecting a Margret Thatcher kid na?

tusker · Post by **tusker** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:09 pm

Search is back!! GREAT. and ....

darb wrote:Depends on who is marry who...lol If George Bush marries Nelson Mandela you cant expecting a Margret Thatcher kid na?

Don't eat words, tonight's dinner is a different thing....

fshagan · Post by **fshagan** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:28 pm

Search works very well now, at least for the searches I have made. Kudos to the "transition team" for all the hard work.

On another matter, is there a way to show the forum ID in the listing of posts when you click the "View Unanswered Posts" link? The resulting display shows the topic title, but not the forum it is from. I don't know phpBB3, but I'm hoping its an easy config item to get the listing to show the forum name.

new_to_cms · Post by **new_to_cms** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:06 am

Isn't that displayed already? (at the right of poster name and date)

Terp · Post by **Terp** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:01 am

darb wrote:
Terp wrote:
brad wrote:In case you missed it, we're not returning to SMF.

phpbb3 is here to stay. We feel this is the right choice for the majority, if you disagree, that is fine, no amount of complaining is going to bring SMF back, or change our minds about the right choice we made to use phpbb3.

...but...but....but...Diri isn't happy!?! Please migrate the forums back to SMF for him, please.

I am equally pissed, though...that no J1.0.x bridge exists for some of the best forums I have ever used - phpbb3.
Not tried CBconnector ? http://www.cbconnector.com but that with CB

Ohhhh, very nice. I'll check this out! Many thanks. But does it get n-100? lol

fshagan · Post by **fshagan** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:58 am

new_to_cms wrote:Isn't that displayed already? (at the right of poster name and date)

Sheesh! You're right ... I was completely missing it, and its in a contrasting color too.

coolparth · Post by **coolparth** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:09 am

Hello Guys,

congratulation's on the superb effort in conversion to PHPBB ( & you got the attachments too!!) really cool.

I just want to make a suggestion in regards to getting the new board to be more user friendly.

I feel the location of the 'Save' button is some what incorrect.
Since its the first button where i feel usually in most cases the submit button would be the natural reaction isto press that button & end up saving the post instead of posting it.

Also once the post is saved there is no way it can be posted to the forum from there itself.

I guess this one is a mod whcih should be communicated to the phpbb team , but if possible do implement the button position change. It would help a lot!

Eelke · Post by **Eelke** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:16 am

I think that's just one of those things you have to get used to. The fact that you "feel" it is incorrect isn't a very compelling reason to change it (no offence meant, I'm just saying you will probably need a better reason than that to convince either the Joomla bb team or the phpBB team to change it). I think I myself accidentally clicked the save button exactly once. Never happened after that.

coolparth · Post by **coolparth** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:21 am

Ya i know what you mean.
But just thought the position of the button is very important since submit is the main function here it should come first. I am sure there's a log of people who experienced this.

Saving a draft surely isnt the main function. So just my bit of input. As i said 'if possible' it would be a logical thing to do

Terp · Post by **Terp** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:29 pm

coolparth wrote:Ya i know what you mean.
But just thought the position of the button is very important since submit is the main function here it should come first. I am sure there's a log of people who experienced this.

Saving a draft surely isnt the main function. So just my bit of input. As i said 'if possible' it would be a logical thing to do

I've done it a dozen times, at least.

And it would be nice if you could post saved drafts from within the saved message screen; but all and all, I love PHPBB3...but your observations are certainly correct and criticism certainly warranted.

Highway of Life · Post by **Highway of Life** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:19 pm

I was thinking that the [ SUBMIT ] button being on the far right is the most likely button to push because dialogue boxes have the [ OK ] button on the far right. -- at least they do in OS X, but I just checked my Windows XP and they do appear on the left. $:-\$

brad · Post by **brad** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:50 pm

Highway of Life wrote:I was thinking that the [ SUBMIT ] button being on the far right is the most likely button to push because dialogue boxes have the [ OK ] button on the far right. -- at least they do in OS X, but I just checked my Windows XP and they do appear on the left. $:-\$

Now I know why this location seems so natural to me. It's closest to your right hand, which usually holds the mouse and is nearest the Enter key.

MindTooth · Post by **MindTooth** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:55 am

Will the site feature a new design? Corperated with the Joomla! site.

Birger

brad · Post by **brad** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:57 am

We'd like all the official Joomla site to have a common template/look and feel in the future.

tusker · Post by **tusker** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:52 am

Oh, that is a welcome step but surely going to take some time.

The Joomla! Forum™

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